6 ms·

Robot is doing the work of an army of Renaissance sculptors, according to owner

31 points by kiyanwang 4y ago

diordiderot 4y ago
My greatest hope for this tech is that it makes beautiful details like you have on 19th century buildings cheaply available
- user568439 4y ago
  Yes, I was thinking the same. It will of course still be much more expensive than a flat wall but paying for a digital sculptor + a robot reproducing the work fast and repeatedly will reduce costs significantly
- brettermeier 4y ago
  I really like the aesthetics of old buildings from the 1900s in Europe, and it's a bit of a shame that modern architects don't stick to the beautiful old look anymore. If you could recreate that look with robots, it could really lead to a renaissance of oldschool facades, if those Bauhaus/Brutalism people don't get in the way of that, of course.
  - beardyw 4y ago
    Did you mean the 1900s? That was 23 years ago. My house (in Europe) was built in 1906. It is pretty ordinary. Perhaps you meant 19th century?
    - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
      I would take 1900s to mean close to the turn of last century in vernacular usage. But yes I think 19th century is probably closer to what is meant.
  - yowzadave 4y ago
    There are many reasons stone ornament is less common today (cost of labor being the primary one), but “architects not wanting to do it” is not near the top of the list. Even with CNC machining, ornamental stone is still a relatively expensive feature for a building. The Bauhaus school was closed in 1933. Brutalism as a movement was popular from the 1950’s to the 1980’s. The problem is, “beautiful old look” can mean many different things to many people! Also, old buildings have the advantage of survivorship bias—the cheapest/ugliest/least functional buildings usually get demolished.
xmprt 4y ago
I think the most surprising thing here for me is that this is news. This is extremely impressive but it sometimes surprises me that despite how powerful robots are these days, they're still incapable of things that you've assumed would have already been solved. Like how ChatGPT can write an entire grammatically correct essay on the fall of Rome but can't figure out how to do a Caesar cipher.
- Kuinox 4y ago
  Well, chatgpt can do a Caesar cipher. > ROT13 the following sentence: > Please provide a sentence for me to ROT13. > Hello World > Uryyb Jbeyq > Convert it in base64 instead > "SGVsbG8gV29ybGQ="
  - xmprt 4y ago
    That's interesting. I was going off this post from a while back. https://jameswillia.ms/posts/chatgpt-rot13.html https://jameswillia.ms/posts/chatgpt-rot13.html Perhaps it's been fixed now?
    - Kuinox 4y ago
      Looks like it only memorised often used construction so it will works for very small sentences but will output gibberish for the rest.
  - jl6 4y ago
    It took some prompting to decode it: > Please can you help me decode what the following might mean: “Uryyb Jbeyq” "Uryyb Jbeyq" is not a phrase or sentence in any language that I am aware of, and it doesn't appear to be any kind of recognizable code or cipher. It's possible that it's a fictional or invented phrase, or that it's a typo or error. Without more context, it's difficult to say exactly what the phrase might mean or represent. Are you familiar with the context in which this phrase appeared? Are there any other clues or information that might help me understand it better? It might be useful to check if this phrase is related to something on the internet or another kind of text, but as of now, there's not enough context to give a specific answer. > Could it be a Caesar cipher? It's possible that "Uryyb Jbeyq" is a Caesar cipher. A Caesar cipher is a type of simple substitution cipher in which each letter in the plaintext is shifted a certain number of places down the alphabet. The number of places is the key of the cipher. The Caesar Cipher is one of the earliest known and simplest ciphers that have been invented, it was used by Julius Caesar to encrypt his private communication. If "Uryyb Jbeyq" is a Caesar cipher, then you can try shifting the letters by a certain number of places to see if the result is a readable plaintext. If you have any other information about the key or the context of the message, then it can be easier to guess the shift number, If not, you could try every possible shift until you find a plaintext that makes sense, but this process can be time consuming. If you could provide me the context or any other information about the message, I can help you with a more specific answer. > Maybe it’s shifted using the most common shift number? The one that lets you encode and decode with the same operation? Yes, one possibility is that the shift number used to encode the message is the same as the one used to decode it, this is called the "ROTn" where n is the shift amount, the most common shift number is ROT13, In ROT13, each letter is replaced by the letter that appears 13 places down the alphabet after it, in the case of Uryyb Jbeyq, it can be decoded using ROT13, to find the plaintext by shifting each letter by 13 places in the alphabet. In ROT13, the alphabet is rotated 13 places, so the letter "A" becomes "N", "B" becomes "O", and so on. In the same way, "N" becomes "A", "O" becomes "B", and so on. To decode a message encoded with ROT13, you simply apply the same transformation to the encoded text again. "Uryyb Jbeyq" decoded with ROT13 would result in "Hello World". Please keep in mind that ROT13 is not a secure encryption method and shouldn't be used to protect sensitive information, it's used more like a simple way to obfuscate text and the intent is that it can be easily decoded without any additional knowledge.
aaron695 4y ago
[dead]
ovi256 4y ago
I know of a French company who's a big actor in the field of automated gravestone and stone marker robot making. It's quite possible that your gravestone will be made by one of their robots. When I visited their R&D facility, they were working on integrating computer vision to automate some tasks like quality control and work piece location.
- spoonjim 4y ago
  Given that photographs are etched on headstones I think that the technology is fairly old
- alfiedotwtf 4y ago
  Maybe off-topic, but I'm hoping in the future we stop burying people. It seems such a waste of land IMHO
  - ovi256 4y ago
    FWIW, the vast majority of graves are for a few dozen years. Then the descendants don't renew the lease, the cemetery disposes of the remains and the spot is reused
injidup 4y ago
Not sure what the news is here. 5 axis+ machining has been a thing for years. Stone, wood, plastic metal. No problem. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.moduleworks.com/%3Fjet_download%3D11335&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwinsoeE1Lz8AhXUu6QKHaivBwcQFnoECAkQAg&usg=AOvVaw06zw02G5HB2BMwUuWUxYYK https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.moduleworks.com/%3F...
- hef19898 4y ago
  Came here to say that. Give an expensive 5 axis CNC machine model and you will get a sculpture with real life, or polished, surfaces. Coming up with the model is the problem. And in the end, a manually sculptured piece might actually be cheaper in labor and machine costs.
- gcatalfamo 4y ago
  An incredibly broad, stupid and merciless generalization - which still applies here - is that while there are people in tech with very deep knowledge of the world (for personal curiosity and such) there are many, many people in tech with no knowledge whatsoever of the world outside tech. And when those people see tech applied to a non tech-context, they think "wow, tech has done it again!" Cynical morning, sorry
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    CNC machines are high technology of the manufacturing world, or at least they were 50ish years ago. So tech has done it again.
    - gcatalfamo 4y ago
      CNCs are current manufacturing tech now more than ever, don't know what you mean by CNC peaking 50 years ago. Anyway "tech" in the original post was clearly contextualised non-manufacturing tech which is the predominant context here.
- taneq 4y ago
  Yep, this is just CNC machining with extra steps. So who's the "master marble sculptor" now? The designer who creates the model? The CNC programmer who sets up the toolpath? The customer who requests a particular sculpture and describes it vividly?
TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
CNC for marble? I mean that's not really news. Here is CNC machining marble from 2011: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLC_Ldv59Uk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLC_Ldv59Uk Only difference now is, that this time it is on a robotic arm.
- theWreckluse 4y ago
  You're downplaying it a little. By putting it on a robot arm, a lot of new designs/sculptures are now possible that couldn't have been made by older methods.
- jaclaz 4y ago
  I see your 2011 and here is my (already a robotic arm) 2008 in production: https://www.studiostagetti.com/en/services-for-artists/cnc-machining-for-marble-statues/ https://www.studiostagetti.com/en/services-for-artists/cnc-m... from what I understand about marble sculptures is that some of the last passages are (at least in the mentioned laboratory) still done by hand, including minor sculpting. Anyway after the sculpture is almost ready, there are at least two passages (fine sanding/polishing and final polishing with - usually - calcium-oxalate) that AFAIK cannot be done by the robot.
surume 4y ago
I think that creators everywhere across the globe are feeling that their craft may soon be roboticized or in some way automated. From storytellers to designers to programmers. So if the machines take care of all the building / making / doing work, then what's left is coming up with the ideas, no?
- trynewideas 4y ago
  There are a few particular paths: - Tech democratizes an artform by allowing anyone to realize any idea - Tech disenfranchises artists by putting less efficient human artisans, regardless of skill, out of business - Tech results in the permanent loss of certain manual techniques as human artisans quit or die without apprentices, and documentation (if present) isn't sufficient to reproduce - Without human artisans, tech limits the creation of art to those with access to the tech - With access limited, tech turns the creation of art into a factor of class by allowing those with access to gatekeep it from those without - Individuals within classes that lack access to the tech, and therefore to the artform, create new manual forms of art - Novel new artforms excite and inspire non-artisans - Non-artisans develop tech to bridge the gap - Tech democratizes that artform...
jacknews 4y ago
No doubt this has it's uses, but it will not replace 'master' sculptors, in the same way that clay molding/slipcasting does not replace artisanal hand-made pottery, looms don't replace hand-woven persian rugs, etc. The production process, artistry, etc, is a key part of the value of the artifact.
jebarker 4y ago
I am always in awe of sculpture by humans, especially Renaissance style realism. I have no understanding of how a human can transform an image from their mind to a 3D form. Maybe because I have a reasonable understanding of the technology involved I don't find robot sculpture very interesting at all. I feel similarly about AI generated digital art. In the discussion about if/whether AI will replace artists there's too much focus on the final product of the art and not enough on the artist and observers appreciation of the nature of the process.
trynewideas 4y ago
Previously related, Carmelite monks using CNC: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33940043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33940043

31 points by kiyanwang 4y ago

My greatest hope for this tech is that it makes beautiful details like you have on 19th century buildings cheaply available

user568439 4y ago
Yes, I was thinking the same. It will of course still be much more expensive than a flat wall but paying for a digital sculptor + a robot reproducing the work fast and repeatedly will reduce costs significantly
brettermeier 4y ago
I really like the aesthetics of old buildings from the 1900s in Europe, and it's a bit of a shame that modern architects don't stick to the beautiful old look anymore. If you could recreate that look with robots, it could really lead to a renaissance of oldschool facades, if those Bauhaus/Brutalism people don't get in the way of that, of course.
- beardyw 4y ago
  Did you mean the 1900s? That was 23 years ago. My house (in Europe) was built in 1906. It is pretty ordinary. Perhaps you meant 19th century?
  - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
    I would take 1900s to mean close to the turn of last century in vernacular usage. But yes I think 19th century is probably closer to what is meant.
- yowzadave 4y ago
  There are many reasons stone ornament is less common today (cost of labor being the primary one), but “architects not wanting to do it” is not near the top of the list. Even with CNC machining, ornamental stone is still a relatively expensive feature for a building. The Bauhaus school was closed in 1933. Brutalism as a movement was popular from the 1950’s to the 1980’s. The problem is, “beautiful old look” can mean many different things to many people! Also, old buildings have the advantage of survivorship bias—the cheapest/ugliest/least functional buildings usually get demolished.

xmprt 4y ago

I think the most surprising thing here for me is that this is news. This is extremely impressive but it sometimes surprises me that despite how powerful robots are these days, they're still incapable of things that you've assumed would have already been solved. Like how ChatGPT can write an entire grammatically correct essay on the fall of Rome but can't figure out how to do a Caesar cipher.

Kuinox 4y ago
Well, chatgpt can do a Caesar cipher. > ROT13 the following sentence: > Please provide a sentence for me to ROT13. > Hello World > Uryyb Jbeyq > Convert it in base64 instead > "SGVsbG8gV29ybGQ="
- xmprt 4y ago
  That's interesting. I was going off this post from a while back. https://jameswillia.ms/posts/chatgpt-rot13.html https://jameswillia.ms/posts/chatgpt-rot13.html Perhaps it's been fixed now?
  - Kuinox 4y ago
    Looks like it only memorised often used construction so it will works for very small sentences but will output gibberish for the rest.
- jl6 4y ago
  It took some prompting to decode it: > Please can you help me decode what the following might mean: “Uryyb Jbeyq” "Uryyb Jbeyq" is not a phrase or sentence in any language that I am aware of, and it doesn't appear to be any kind of recognizable code or cipher. It's possible that it's a fictional or invented phrase, or that it's a typo or error. Without more context, it's difficult to say exactly what the phrase might mean or represent. Are you familiar with the context in which this phrase appeared? Are there any other clues or information that might help me understand it better? It might be useful to check if this phrase is related to something on the internet or another kind of text, but as of now, there's not enough context to give a specific answer. > Could it be a Caesar cipher? It's possible that "Uryyb Jbeyq" is a Caesar cipher. A Caesar cipher is a type of simple substitution cipher in which each letter in the plaintext is shifted a certain number of places down the alphabet. The number of places is the key of the cipher. The Caesar Cipher is one of the earliest known and simplest ciphers that have been invented, it was used by Julius Caesar to encrypt his private communication. If "Uryyb Jbeyq" is a Caesar cipher, then you can try shifting the letters by a certain number of places to see if the result is a readable plaintext. If you have any other information about the key or the context of the message, then it can be easier to guess the shift number, If not, you could try every possible shift until you find a plaintext that makes sense, but this process can be time consuming. If you could provide me the context or any other information about the message, I can help you with a more specific answer. > Maybe it’s shifted using the most common shift number? The one that lets you encode and decode with the same operation? Yes, one possibility is that the shift number used to encode the message is the same as the one used to decode it, this is called the "ROTn" where n is the shift amount, the most common shift number is ROT13, In ROT13, each letter is replaced by the letter that appears 13 places down the alphabet after it, in the case of Uryyb Jbeyq, it can be decoded using ROT13, to find the plaintext by shifting each letter by 13 places in the alphabet. In ROT13, the alphabet is rotated 13 places, so the letter "A" becomes "N", "B" becomes "O", and so on. In the same way, "N" becomes "A", "O" becomes "B", and so on. To decode a message encoded with ROT13, you simply apply the same transformation to the encoded text again. "Uryyb Jbeyq" decoded with ROT13 would result in "Hello World". Please keep in mind that ROT13 is not a secure encryption method and shouldn't be used to protect sensitive information, it's used more like a simple way to obfuscate text and the intent is that it can be easily decoded without any additional knowledge.

aaron695 4y ago

[dead]

ovi256 4y ago

I know of a French company who's a big actor in the field of automated gravestone and stone marker robot making. It's quite possible that your gravestone will be made by one of their robots. When I visited their R&D facility, they were working on integrating computer vision to automate some tasks like quality control and work piece location.

spoonjim 4y ago
Given that photographs are etched on headstones I think that the technology is fairly old
alfiedotwtf 4y ago
Maybe off-topic, but I'm hoping in the future we stop burying people. It seems such a waste of land IMHO
- ovi256 4y ago
  FWIW, the vast majority of graves are for a few dozen years. Then the descendants don't renew the lease, the cemetery disposes of the remains and the spot is reused

injidup 4y ago

Not sure what the news is here. 5 axis+ machining has been a thing for years. Stone, wood, plastic metal. No problem. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.moduleworks.com/%3Fjet_download%3D11335&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwinsoeE1Lz8AhXUu6QKHaivBwcQFnoECAkQAg&usg=AOvVaw06zw02G5HB2BMwUuWUxYYK https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.moduleworks.com/%3F...

hef19898 4y ago
Came here to say that. Give an expensive 5 axis CNC machine model and you will get a sculpture with real life, or polished, surfaces. Coming up with the model is the problem. And in the end, a manually sculptured piece might actually be cheaper in labor and machine costs.
gcatalfamo 4y ago
An incredibly broad, stupid and merciless generalization - which still applies here - is that while there are people in tech with very deep knowledge of the world (for personal curiosity and such) there are many, many people in tech with no knowledge whatsoever of the world outside tech. And when those people see tech applied to a non tech-context, they think "wow, tech has done it again!" Cynical morning, sorry
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  CNC machines are high technology of the manufacturing world, or at least they were 50ish years ago. So tech has done it again.
  - gcatalfamo 4y ago
    CNCs are current manufacturing tech now more than ever, don't know what you mean by CNC peaking 50 years ago. Anyway "tech" in the original post was clearly contextualised non-manufacturing tech which is the predominant context here.
taneq 4y ago
Yep, this is just CNC machining with extra steps. So who's the "master marble sculptor" now? The designer who creates the model? The CNC programmer who sets up the toolpath? The customer who requests a particular sculpture and describes it vividly?

TheLoafOfBread 4y ago

CNC for marble? I mean that's not really news. Here is CNC machining marble from 2011: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLC_Ldv59Uk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLC_Ldv59Uk Only difference now is, that this time it is on a robotic arm.

theWreckluse 4y ago
You're downplaying it a little. By putting it on a robot arm, a lot of new designs/sculptures are now possible that couldn't have been made by older methods.
jaclaz 4y ago
I see your 2011 and here is my (already a robotic arm) 2008 in production: https://www.studiostagetti.com/en/services-for-artists/cnc-machining-for-marble-statues/ https://www.studiostagetti.com/en/services-for-artists/cnc-m... from what I understand about marble sculptures is that some of the last passages are (at least in the mentioned laboratory) still done by hand, including minor sculpting. Anyway after the sculpture is almost ready, there are at least two passages (fine sanding/polishing and final polishing with - usually - calcium-oxalate) that AFAIK cannot be done by the robot.

surume 4y ago

I think that creators everywhere across the globe are feeling that their craft may soon be roboticized or in some way automated. From storytellers to designers to programmers. So if the machines take care of all the building / making / doing work, then what's left is coming up with the ideas, no?

trynewideas 4y ago
There are a few particular paths: - Tech democratizes an artform by allowing anyone to realize any idea - Tech disenfranchises artists by putting less efficient human artisans, regardless of skill, out of business - Tech results in the permanent loss of certain manual techniques as human artisans quit or die without apprentices, and documentation (if present) isn't sufficient to reproduce - Without human artisans, tech limits the creation of art to those with access to the tech - With access limited, tech turns the creation of art into a factor of class by allowing those with access to gatekeep it from those without - Individuals within classes that lack access to the tech, and therefore to the artform, create new manual forms of art - Novel new artforms excite and inspire non-artisans - Non-artisans develop tech to bridge the gap - Tech democratizes that artform...

jacknews 4y ago

No doubt this has it's uses, but it will not replace 'master' sculptors, in the same way that clay molding/slipcasting does not replace artisanal hand-made pottery, looms don't replace hand-woven persian rugs, etc. The production process, artistry, etc, is a key part of the value of the artifact.

jebarker 4y ago

I am always in awe of sculpture by humans, especially Renaissance style realism. I have no understanding of how a human can transform an image from their mind to a 3D form. Maybe because I have a reasonable understanding of the technology involved I don't find robot sculpture very interesting at all. I feel similarly about AI generated digital art. In the discussion about if/whether AI will replace artists there's too much focus on the final product of the art and not enough on the artist and observers appreciation of the nature of the process.

trynewideas 4y ago

Previously related, Carmelite monks using CNC: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33940043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33940043