6 ms·

So many HODLers in this thread. For the normal person on the street, Bitcoin or Crypto never mattered. The endlessly breathless PR was irritating. Whatever happ

by windex 4y ago

So many HODLers in this thread. For the normal person on the street, Bitcoin or Crypto never mattered. The endlessly breathless PR was irritating. Whatever happens, this wont be missed.

renewiltord 4y ago
I disagree. Crypto was the sort of thing you might hear about from a cabbie or at the barber shop. It was definitely something for the normal person on the street. In fact, that was used as a common sell signal with people quoting the "When your shoeshine boy gives you stock tips" stuff.
- ozim 4y ago
  I just wanted to add perspective that for these cabbies and normal people it was gambling. It was not “get free from the government” it was not about convenience of digital payments or whatever crypto promise was there. For normal people it was get rich quick scheme and that is why advertising was so annoying. I agree with parent comment - in the end it never really mattered for normal people.
  - joyfylbanana 4y ago
    Though for many normal people it was also about buying drugs online which could be seen as "get free from the government" kind of thing
    - trenchgun 4y ago
      There are orders of magnitude more crypto gamblers than people buying drugs online.
    - pif 4y ago
      If you buy drugs for which you need to hide from your democratic government, then you are not normal people: you are a criminal. Good riddance!
      - Slava_Propanei 4y ago
        [dead]
  - red-iron-pine 4y ago
    It was gambling for everyone. Investors just had more to lose, more options to help hedge, and, in theory, more financial knowledge. It's not a commodity, and it's utility as a currency was debatable.
- FatActor 4y ago
  Back in the late 1990's I had a laptop and was working in a cafe and the barista asked me if I worked in tech - I said I did - and then proceeded to excitedly go on about how Transmeta was going to dominate the x86 market. Yes, a barista (not knocking baristas but they are not known for their deep vertical knowledge in subjects outside of coffee, except maybe english lit). This was the level of enthusiasm at the time for one of the first techno disrupters. It very much reminds me of crypto a few years ago spinning off a cloud of so many a non techie person with a deep-seated, poorly-informed opinion backed up by a Robin Hood account full of DOGE.
- roncesvalles 4y ago
  >Crypto was the sort of thing you might hear about from a cabbie or at the barber shop. Usually what you'd hear was "I don't get it."
dsco 4y ago
Great take. I never see this type of anti-crypto sentiment on HN. What does it feel like to be a contrarian?
- oblio 4y ago
  Did you ever wonder why HN has so few vaccine contrarians but it has a lot of cryptocurrency contrarians? Smart people are generally[1] better at seeing through scams and dishonest deals. [1] Not always, of course, and hype can infect everyone, for a while at least.
  - spiralx 4y ago
    Really? HN is one of the most anti-vax and COVID conspiratorial sites I browse regularly, it's pretty right-wing.
jamiegreen 4y ago
It never mattered if you live in a country with a stable currency and access to modern financial services. If that is you, you are in a very small minority of the world population. For the rest of the world, there seems to be some value... https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/2021-global-crypto-adoption-index/ https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/2021-global-crypto-adop...
- oblio 4y ago
  People keep harping about that. Let's say I'm some sort of Ion Trașcă from Moldova. My country's in shambles, I need to buy and pay for stuff using crypto. How can I do that? Are there simple to use apps to set things up from the start and then use crypto? UI/fully visual, I don't want to touch ANY scary command line. How do I or who manages my keys?
  - jamiegreen 4y ago
    I'm not sure if you are being intentionally condescending but you are coming across that way. I am going to assume good intention here. I am not that familiar with the 'end use ' of paying for stuff directly, maybe you can't in Moldova. Even if you can't pay for things directly, there are plenty of relevant uses. Simply using USDC can be a great store of value for people if their currency is collapsing. See lebanon, turkey, egypt, sri lanka etc. Then if things get really bad, having some crypto could be very useful again if/when you have to flee the country. There are so many stories of Russians and Ukranians that left and were not able to take any of their currency. Here is just one example: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/23/ukrainian-flees-to-poland-with-2000-in-bitcoin-on-usb-drive.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/23/ukrainian-flees-to-poland-wi... Pointing out these real use cases is not 'harping on', in some cases this tech has saved people from terrible situations.
    - oblio 4y ago
      Every bad thing has positive aspects just as every good thing also has negative ones. For now I'm against cryptocurrencies because every plus I've seen is outweighed by the con (pun intended). And this is actually the second time in a cryptocurrency topic that I ask this and nobody answers. Let's say I'm in Extremistan or Extremistia. How do I use cryptocurrency? Is it just a store of value? Can I use it for payments? I want a guide, I'm new to this. How do I use it?
Melting_Harps 4y ago
> So many HODLers in this thread. For the normal person on the street, Bitcoin or Crypto never mattered. Total copium from alt nerds is never ending, but the truth is neither of you know what you are talking about: Blackrock just added BTC to their $15B fund [0], which isn't much in total market-cap (despite the down market) but is a position to say the largest (and most predatory) hedge-fund sees value in utilizing Bitcoin denominated assets. So, it may have not mattered to you, but you just outted yourself as being no more insightful on financial matters than that 'normal person on the street.' To be honest, I've been in this for over 11 years now, and the fact of the matter is we have won many battles along the way, but will have only truly 'won' when people like you don't realize you are using BTC at all, the level of financial literacy that it takes to be your own bank and self-custody and maintain financial sovereignty is FAR TOO much for the average person--I'm convinced no amount of simplification wit tech/device solutions will lead to that paradigm shift anymore in order to capture the average part of the bell curve. What will occur is you will walk in to what looks like your typical bank/retailer which functions with BTC to reduce tx costs and settles on main chain on a periodic basis to fit business needs (and keeping some for strategic/investment purposes for long term duration like Microstrategy as an ancillary source of revenue), resulting in a situation just like how most never ask how does the plumbing work most won't realize how these establishments are running their own MC/LN nodes and probably use State subsidized solar panels for tax breaks via inflation reduction like legislation that then used to heat the building with miners if all goes to plan. Just like engineers cannot rely on public convectional wisdom to understand the complexity and mechanics of an internal combustion engine, or the gearing ratio in their transmissions they use to get to place to place, our largest hurdle is no longer to inform the masses (I agree the PR has gotten out of hand but mainly by alt scammers and Ivy league thieves like SBF). Rather we need to focus on making the UI/UX indistinguishable from the current model all while running things on the back-end on either Mainchain or LN as needed. People on hn complain about the 'eternal September' of the online World, I think what's sadder is that after over 5000+ years of debt based currencies that always end the same way even the supposed brightest amongst you are incapable of understanding the implications of the average age of fiat based currencies that have always led to collapse and induce war (see Russia and China) to prop up the disintegration of Society itself--de-investment, zero covid policy, real estate crashes ave put the CCP on the war path but at the core is the tight policy of te yuan on the mainland whih has led to massive real estate speculation and large holding of farm land in Australia wit capital flight. Financial history is long, boring and tedious thing to study on your own time, but as I found out in 2007 leading into the crash its better to be informed than gullible--most don't realize the importance and take over of Washington Mutual (my bank at the time and the largest bankruptcy in US history at the time) was an expose that proved just how broken the system is and that the FDIC itself is insolvent and that State agencies will break laws in order to serve the large bank's interests whether it was this or the repeal of Glass-Steagall with Goldman Sachs etc... I'm sure you sopped reading, by now, but if you haven't than it's probably worth your time understanding why tier has been a nearly decades long brain drain from academia, traditional finance, and tech into BTC over its lifetime. 0: https://financefeeds.com/blackrock-makes-bitcoin-eligible-investment-to-15b-fund/ https://financefeeds.com/blackrock-makes-bitcoin-eligible-in...

by windex 4y ago

So many HODLers in this thread. For the normal person on the street, Bitcoin or Crypto never mattered. The endlessly breathless PR was irritating. Whatever happens, this wont be missed.

renewiltord 4y ago

I disagree. Crypto was the sort of thing you might hear about from a cabbie or at the barber shop. It was definitely something for the normal person on the street. In fact, that was used as a common sell signal with people quoting the "When your shoeshine boy gives you stock tips" stuff.

ozim 4y ago
I just wanted to add perspective that for these cabbies and normal people it was gambling. It was not “get free from the government” it was not about convenience of digital payments or whatever crypto promise was there. For normal people it was get rich quick scheme and that is why advertising was so annoying. I agree with parent comment - in the end it never really mattered for normal people.
- joyfylbanana 4y ago
  Though for many normal people it was also about buying drugs online which could be seen as "get free from the government" kind of thing
  - trenchgun 4y ago
    There are orders of magnitude more crypto gamblers than people buying drugs online.
  - pif 4y ago
    If you buy drugs for which you need to hide from your democratic government, then you are not normal people: you are a criminal. Good riddance!
    - Slava_Propanei 4y ago
      [dead]
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  It was gambling for everyone. Investors just had more to lose, more options to help hedge, and, in theory, more financial knowledge. It's not a commodity, and it's utility as a currency was debatable.
FatActor 4y ago
Back in the late 1990's I had a laptop and was working in a cafe and the barista asked me if I worked in tech - I said I did - and then proceeded to excitedly go on about how Transmeta was going to dominate the x86 market. Yes, a barista (not knocking baristas but they are not known for their deep vertical knowledge in subjects outside of coffee, except maybe english lit). This was the level of enthusiasm at the time for one of the first techno disrupters. It very much reminds me of crypto a few years ago spinning off a cloud of so many a non techie person with a deep-seated, poorly-informed opinion backed up by a Robin Hood account full of DOGE.
roncesvalles 4y ago
>Crypto was the sort of thing you might hear about from a cabbie or at the barber shop. Usually what you'd hear was "I don't get it."

dsco 4y ago

Great take. I never see this type of anti-crypto sentiment on HN. What does it feel like to be a contrarian?

oblio 4y ago
Did you ever wonder why HN has so few vaccine contrarians but it has a lot of cryptocurrency contrarians? Smart people are generally[1] better at seeing through scams and dishonest deals. [1] Not always, of course, and hype can infect everyone, for a while at least.
- spiralx 4y ago
  Really? HN is one of the most anti-vax and COVID conspiratorial sites I browse regularly, it's pretty right-wing.

jamiegreen 4y ago

It never mattered if you live in a country with a stable currency and access to modern financial services. If that is you, you are in a very small minority of the world population. For the rest of the world, there seems to be some value... https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/2021-global-crypto-adoption-index/ https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/2021-global-crypto-adop...

oblio 4y ago
People keep harping about that. Let's say I'm some sort of Ion Trașcă from Moldova. My country's in shambles, I need to buy and pay for stuff using crypto. How can I do that? Are there simple to use apps to set things up from the start and then use crypto? UI/fully visual, I don't want to touch ANY scary command line. How do I or who manages my keys?
- jamiegreen 4y ago
  I'm not sure if you are being intentionally condescending but you are coming across that way. I am going to assume good intention here. I am not that familiar with the 'end use ' of paying for stuff directly, maybe you can't in Moldova. Even if you can't pay for things directly, there are plenty of relevant uses. Simply using USDC can be a great store of value for people if their currency is collapsing. See lebanon, turkey, egypt, sri lanka etc. Then if things get really bad, having some crypto could be very useful again if/when you have to flee the country. There are so many stories of Russians and Ukranians that left and were not able to take any of their currency. Here is just one example: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/23/ukrainian-flees-to-poland-with-2000-in-bitcoin-on-usb-drive.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/23/ukrainian-flees-to-poland-wi... Pointing out these real use cases is not 'harping on', in some cases this tech has saved people from terrible situations.
  - oblio 4y ago
    Every bad thing has positive aspects just as every good thing also has negative ones. For now I'm against cryptocurrencies because every plus I've seen is outweighed by the con (pun intended). And this is actually the second time in a cryptocurrency topic that I ask this and nobody answers. Let's say I'm in Extremistan or Extremistia. How do I use cryptocurrency? Is it just a store of value? Can I use it for payments? I want a guide, I'm new to this. How do I use it?

Melting_Harps 4y ago

> So many HODLers in this thread. For the normal person on the street, Bitcoin or Crypto never mattered. Total copium from alt nerds is never ending, but the truth is neither of you know what you are talking about: Blackrock just added BTC to their $15B fund [0], which isn't much in total market-cap (despite the down market) but is a position to say the largest (and most predatory) hedge-fund sees value in utilizing Bitcoin denominated assets. So, it may have not mattered to you, but you just outted yourself as being no more insightful on financial matters than that 'normal person on the street.' To be honest, I've been in this for over 11 years now, and the fact of the matter is we have won many battles along the way, but will have only truly 'won' when people like you don't realize you are using BTC at all, the level of financial literacy that it takes to be your own bank and self-custody and maintain financial sovereignty is FAR TOO much for the average person--I'm convinced no amount of simplification wit tech/device solutions will lead to that paradigm shift anymore in order to capture the average part of the bell curve. What will occur is you will walk in to what looks like your typical bank/retailer which functions with BTC to reduce tx costs and settles on main chain on a periodic basis to fit business needs (and keeping some for strategic/investment purposes for long term duration like Microstrategy as an ancillary source of revenue), resulting in a situation just like how most never ask how does the plumbing work most won't realize how these establishments are running their own MC/LN nodes and probably use State subsidized solar panels for tax breaks via inflation reduction like legislation that then used to heat the building with miners if all goes to plan. Just like engineers cannot rely on public convectional wisdom to understand the complexity and mechanics of an internal combustion engine, or the gearing ratio in their transmissions they use to get to place to place, our largest hurdle is no longer to inform the masses (I agree the PR has gotten out of hand but mainly by alt scammers and Ivy league thieves like SBF). Rather we need to focus on making the UI/UX indistinguishable from the current model all while running things on the back-end on either Mainchain or LN as needed. People on hn complain about the 'eternal September' of the online World, I think what's sadder is that after over 5000+ years of debt based currencies that always end the same way even the supposed brightest amongst you are incapable of understanding the implications of the average age of fiat based currencies that have always led to collapse and induce war (see Russia and China) to prop up the disintegration of Society itself--de-investment, zero covid policy, real estate crashes ave put the CCP on the war path but at the core is the tight policy of te yuan on the mainland whih has led to massive real estate speculation and large holding of farm land in Australia wit capital flight. Financial history is long, boring and tedious thing to study on your own time, but as I found out in 2007 leading into the crash its better to be informed than gullible--most don't realize the importance and take over of Washington Mutual (my bank at the time and the largest bankruptcy in US history at the time) was an expose that proved just how broken the system is and that the FDIC itself is insolvent and that State agencies will break laws in order to serve the large bank's interests whether it was this or the repeal of Glass-Steagall with Goldman Sachs etc... I'm sure you sopped reading, by now, but if you haven't than it's probably worth your time understanding why tier has been a nearly decades long brain drain from academia, traditional finance, and tech into BTC over its lifetime. 0: https://financefeeds.com/blackrock-makes-bitcoin-eligible-investment-to-15b-fund/ https://financefeeds.com/blackrock-makes-bitcoin-eligible-in...