9 ms·

> I hope government wakes up to how screwed up and dangerous Amazon’s model really is. The amazon model isn't to drive horribly and park badly. They just pay t

> I hope government wakes up to how screwed up and dangerous Amazon’s model really is. The amazon model isn't to drive horribly and park badly. They just pay too little and try to insulate themselves from accountability by hiring contractors while overworking their drivers to the extent that they have to piss in bottles to get through a shift without being punished. Have you complained to anyone about the problem you've seen with drivers? Called the police? UPS, Fedex, and USPS can have the same problems when it comes to bad/overworked/inconsiderate drivers. Governments just have to do better at holding companies accountable for the behavior of the drivers working on their behalf.

Scubabear68 4y ago
We are a town of around 6,900 people over 30 square miles. There is an army of Amazon vans invading our town. Our local officials and police have no capacity to deal with this. UPS, USPS and FedEx drivers do not show this level of dysfunction. There are issues, but they are isolated. With Amazon, I fully expect nearly every driver to be a menace.
- cameldrv 4y ago
  They have the capacity, they just don't have the laws to do the job. If Amazon is effectively forcing their drivers to disobey the law, the solution is simple: have escalating fines for violating the law. The fines for most petty violations are based on the idea that the violation was most likely a mistake or an exceptional circumstance. If the violation is deemed to be just a cost of doing business, make the cost of doing business higher. If Amazon needs to routinely violate the law in order to operate, let them negotiate with the city to come up with a safe and reasonable plan. Otherwise, the city should make it unaffordable to routinely violate the law.
  - HDThoreaun 4y ago
    Amazon doesn't employ the drivers though, they're all contractors for a third party firm. Start investigating the driver company and they just shut down and reopen with a new name.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    You probably don't even need escalating fines. Just having police stop to warn/ticket the drivers would be enough to throw drivers way behind schedule. The costs of constantly having to hire/train replacements for all the drivers not meeting their crazy metrics would be costly enough for amazon that they'd probably start looking for better options, but I'll admit that would have a much larger cost on the employees when its the employer we want to punish.
- prepend 4y ago
  > Our local officials and police have no capacity to deal with this. Why not? Even if there’s one sherif have then spend a few hours each week ticketing these vans. Since there’s an army it should be easy to find them breaking laws and ticket them. If they are fined then they will change their behavior. And the upside is if they don’t change their behavior, then they can just hire a new officer who tickets full time. This is a solvable problem if communities want to solve it.
greedo 4y ago
Fedex also uses contractors to deliver parcels. A friend and her husband run a small biz that does nothing but Fedex deliveries in the Midwest.
- no_wizard 4y ago
  I talked to a few folks who do this extensively, particularly for fedex ground. My understanding is they actually pay is a decent amount at the end of the day minus expenses, it’s just long hours, but nothing like whet Amazon does with their contractors
- mtnGoat 4y ago
  Yup, my brother did this for a couple years and after seeing how the contractors handled (or threw, or kicked, etc) the packages, I avoid FedEx like the plague. Unfortunately their content employees are amazing.
myself248 4y ago
> The amazon model isn't to drive horribly and park badly. They just pay too little and try to insulate themselves from accountability by hiring contractors while overworking their drivers These are not mutually exclusive. Quite the contrary, I would say they're precisely equivalent. If you cannot give people an appropriate workload to do a good job, and they'd end up homeless if they quit, then the result is that they will do a bad job. And the reason it's the most profitable model, is that they've insulated themselves from accountability, and everyone else pays for the negative externalities of crashes and such. That is 100% their model.

Scubabear68 4y ago

We are a town of around 6,900 people over 30 square miles. There is an army of Amazon vans invading our town. Our local officials and police have no capacity to deal with this. UPS, USPS and FedEx drivers do not show this level of dysfunction. There are issues, but they are isolated. With Amazon, I fully expect nearly every driver to be a menace.

cameldrv 4y ago
They have the capacity, they just don't have the laws to do the job. If Amazon is effectively forcing their drivers to disobey the law, the solution is simple: have escalating fines for violating the law. The fines for most petty violations are based on the idea that the violation was most likely a mistake or an exceptional circumstance. If the violation is deemed to be just a cost of doing business, make the cost of doing business higher. If Amazon needs to routinely violate the law in order to operate, let them negotiate with the city to come up with a safe and reasonable plan. Otherwise, the city should make it unaffordable to routinely violate the law.
- HDThoreaun 4y ago
  Amazon doesn't employ the drivers though, they're all contractors for a third party firm. Start investigating the driver company and they just shut down and reopen with a new name.
- autoexec 4y ago
  You probably don't even need escalating fines. Just having police stop to warn/ticket the drivers would be enough to throw drivers way behind schedule. The costs of constantly having to hire/train replacements for all the drivers not meeting their crazy metrics would be costly enough for amazon that they'd probably start looking for better options, but I'll admit that would have a much larger cost on the employees when its the employer we want to punish.
prepend 4y ago
> Our local officials and police have no capacity to deal with this. Why not? Even if there’s one sherif have then spend a few hours each week ticketing these vans. Since there’s an army it should be easy to find them breaking laws and ticket them. If they are fined then they will change their behavior. And the upside is if they don’t change their behavior, then they can just hire a new officer who tickets full time. This is a solvable problem if communities want to solve it.

greedo 4y ago

Fedex also uses contractors to deliver parcels. A friend and her husband run a small biz that does nothing but Fedex deliveries in the Midwest.

no_wizard 4y ago
I talked to a few folks who do this extensively, particularly for fedex ground. My understanding is they actually pay is a decent amount at the end of the day minus expenses, it’s just long hours, but nothing like whet Amazon does with their contractors
mtnGoat 4y ago
Yup, my brother did this for a couple years and after seeing how the contractors handled (or threw, or kicked, etc) the packages, I avoid FedEx like the plague. Unfortunately their content employees are amazing.

myself248 4y ago

> The amazon model isn't to drive horribly and park badly. They just pay too little and try to insulate themselves from accountability by hiring contractors while overworking their drivers These are not mutually exclusive. Quite the contrary, I would say they're precisely equivalent. If you cannot give people an appropriate workload to do a good job, and they'd end up homeless if they quit, then the result is that they will do a bad job. And the reason it's the most profitable model, is that they've insulated themselves from accountability, and everyone else pays for the negative externalities of crashes and such. That is 100% their model.