6 ms·

Restoration of the ozone layer is back on track, scientists say

152 points by lxm 4y ago

ForOldHack 4y ago
They are lying. They are not even close. "Antarctic ozone hole is 13th largest on record and expected to persist into November " 2021. They have declared it solved every two years since it was discovered. https://www.noaa.gov/media/image_download/1ad0ade3-5211-4af7-a735-f9d94029e371 https://www.noaa.gov/media/image_download/1ad0ade3-5211-4af7...
pitched 4y ago
https://archive.ph/EysoO https://archive.ph/EysoO
r930 4y ago
NASA has interesting Ozone monitoring data for those interested. https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/ https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/ Those of us in the lower southern hemisphere get hit pretty hard with UV radiation in spring (Sep-Nov).
- dietr1ch 4y ago
  The sun has been really strong since the early 2000s. It's a shame that the Southern hemisphere got that affected given it probably produced less than 20% of the damage.
- stephen_g 4y ago
  Yeah, we tend to get a triple-whammy down south. I recall reading that the tilt of the earth, as well as atmospheric pollution make even more of a difference. If I recall the figures correctly, the UV hole can increase UV by ~3% in the southern hemisphere compared to the northern hemisphere, but the fact we tilt slightly closer to the sun in summer than the northern hemisphere makes 6-7% difference, and the fact that there is far less atmospheric pollution (aerosols, etc. that absorb some UV) in the south makes another ~6%. So even in summer when the UV hole is at its minimum, at the same distance from the equator you can have something like 12-14% more UV exposure than the northern hemisphere in summer. It's ironic that better pollution controls, while causing many health benefits, will potentially make things worse for skin cancer in the northern hemisphere by gradually increase the UV doses, so you all are going to have to get better at sun safety or melanoma will become a much bigger issue there.
  - hackernewds 4y ago
    Are you implying that pollution will decrease the instances of skin cancer perpetuated by solar UV?
    - rhinoceraptor 4y ago
      They probably didn't mean to a large degree, but air pollution does scatter light and UV radiation. As well as cause breathing problems, asthma, probably lung cancer, etc.
    - stephen_g 4y ago
      Atmospheric pollution scatters and absorbs some UV light in the upper atmosphere and stops it reaching the ground. While reducing pollution is a net good, one unfortunate consequence of controlling and reducing the pollution that gets up to the upper atmosphere is that it will lead to a few percent increase in the UV dose people receive in the northern hemisphere. Skin cancer is associated with UV exposure so incidence of skin cancers will go up if sun safety is not observed.
    - Der_Einzige 4y ago
      Oh it's far more than that. Giant volcanic eruptions have been responsible for non negligible reductions in global temperatures due to reducing the sunlight which hits earth via scattering and other effects due to the pollution. Same reason for a "nuclear winter" post WW3
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    > but the fact we tilt slightly closer to the sun in summer than the northern hemisphere makes 6-7% difference How could that be a fact? Axial precession (a) has a period that is much longer than a year, meaning there is no systematic difference between the northern and southern hemispheres; and (b) has a period that is MUCH longer than a year, meaning the difference between the northern and southern hemispheres in the same year is negligible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_parallelism#Earth's_axial_parallelism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_parallelism#Earth's_axia... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession#History
- Synaesthesia 4y ago
  I live in Pretoria, South Africa. Every day my weather app tells me the UV levels are "extreme" (over 11). The sun here definitely hits a lot harder than in Europe. https://sawx.co.za/uv-index-south-africa/tshwane-pretoria/ https://sawx.co.za/uv-index-south-africa/tshwane-pretoria/
junofan 4y ago
> Looking at stratospheric aerosol injection, “is in our wheelhouse,” he added. > There is a lot of uncertainty in their findings, Dr. Fahey said, but the basic message is that trying to cool the planet by 0.5 degree Celsius (0.9 degree Fahrenheit), say, through the use of sulfur aerosols, would have some effect on ozone. Why are these people qualified to mess with our climate?
- whatshisface 4y ago
  Because they know more than me and I'm already messing it up. :-) Seriously, it is already too late to not change it.
  - junofan 4y ago
    Why these individuals?
    - Waterluvian 4y ago
      Why any individuals? Nobody is fully qualified in the eyes of all laypeople so let us do nothing.
    - themitigating 4y ago
      Because they study this and it's part of their career. That's enough.
- userbinator 4y ago
  through the use of sulfur aerosols This is actually already happening somewhat, due to the use of high-sulfur fuel oil by container ships. Of course, the irony is that certain organisations are attempting to lower this sulfur content, without the realisation that it's actually helping to moderate the temperature of the planet.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - 4y ago
121110987654321 4y ago
I am confused by the transition in this story. Did the same assessment simultaneously measure both the decreasing "Chinese rogue production" and potential effects of geoengineering?
xwdv 4y ago
It always gives me some faith again to hear the ozone layer is recovering. I feel that if this crisis had began in our current times I would resign myself to believing the ozone layer would completely disappear at some point and we’d be cooked.
- jonathankoren 4y ago
  You weren't the only one to think about the complete loss of the ozone layer. Remember the Sunblock 5000 commercial from Robocop 2? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oJzfmWO3CU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oJzfmWO3CU
wyldfire 4y ago
My one-step-shy-of-tinfoil-hat dad loves to say that he thinks climate change is BS. He has no expertise on which to claim this, but when prompted he'll cite "it used to be that we had to worry about the ozone layer ... " -- I'll patiently explain how the Montreal Protocol has mitigated the problem, that's why it doesn't come up anymore. And bringing up the ozone layer is actually a great case for policies that intervene to preserve our environment. He'll generally change the subject or focus on some other modern "dystopia" rather than acknowledge being wrong.
- crackercrews 4y ago
  When the ozone layer was being depleted, did the scientists sounding the alarm say that it could be healed in this period of time? Honest question. If not then your father might be reacting to doomsaying that turned out to be overzealous.
  - dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
    At the time there wasn't much focus on timelines (besides being a long term undertaking), only that there was a hole in the ozone layer and that it could be fixed by avoiding certain refrigerants. As they were taken off the market the progress in regulating the CFCs and the ozone layer healing was noted, and it faded away as a concern. At the time I lived under said hole, so it was in the news quite a bit.
  - krisoft 4y ago
    > If not then your father might be reacting to doomsaying that turned out to be overzealous. Also known as the: Boy-who-cried-wolf-so-we-hired-hunters-who-killed-the-wolfs-and-look-there-is-no-wolfs-anymore-stupid-boy story.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  Bring up the fact that it's going to take decades for the ozone layer to reach its previous levels. We still have to worry about the ozone layer, it leads to higher rates of skin and eye disease, including cancers, it can have deleterious effects on plants, phytoplankton and fish, and it can accelerate the breakdown of different materials[1]. Increased radiation reaching the surface of the Earth has a ton of effects on humans that are pretty awful[2]. [1] https://www.epa.gov/ozone-layer-protection/health-and-environmental-effects-ozone-layer-depletion https://www.epa.gov/ozone-layer-protection/health-and-enviro... [2] https://www.epa.gov/sunsafety/health-effects-uv-radiation https://www.epa.gov/sunsafety/health-effects-uv-radiation
tigerlily 4y ago
I live in the southern hemisphere, and I've travelled a bit. The sunlight where I live is of a hard, stark, dazzling kind. A brilliant white that reflects off surfaces with increased intensity. It reminds me of the photos of spacewalking astronauts doing repairs, their suits ablaze and every surface overexposed. I find sunglasses a must-have in these conditions. Sitting in the sunlight on an even mildly sunny day is scary. If you're paying attention, after only five minutes you'll notice a burning sensation on your exposed limbs. And that is actually what is happening - you're being fried by the Sun's rays.
- kmlx 4y ago
  i know what you mean. australia has an UV index in summer between 10 and 14. sun protection is usually recommended between 9am and 6pm. thus skin cancer is australia’s most common cancer. i found this paper to be pretty interesting: https://niwa.co.nz/sites/niwa.co.nz/files/import/attachments/Liley_2.pdf https://niwa.co.nz/sites/niwa.co.nz/files/import/attachments...
- bamboozled 4y ago
  This sounds funny but I actually really dislike the light in Australia in summer. It's really white, washed out and sterile, it sounds weird but it kind of makes me feel a bit depressed. Similar to how I hate the light from fluorescent bulbs. I'm not sure if this has to do with just the angle of the sun or the hole in the ozone layer? But it's definitely something I've not really felt in many other places, or I've ever seen in the Northern Hemisphere. Early morning and afternoon on a Sydney beach is beautiful, Midday ? No thanks.

152 points by lxm 4y ago

They are lying. They are not even close. "Antarctic ozone hole is 13th largest on record and expected to persist into November " 2021. They have declared it solved every two years since it was discovered. https://www.noaa.gov/media/image_download/1ad0ade3-5211-4af7-a735-f9d94029e371 https://www.noaa.gov/media/image_download/1ad0ade3-5211-4af7...

pitched 4y ago

https://archive.ph/EysoO https://archive.ph/EysoO

r930 4y ago

NASA has interesting Ozone monitoring data for those interested. https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/ https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/ Those of us in the lower southern hemisphere get hit pretty hard with UV radiation in spring (Sep-Nov).

dietr1ch 4y ago
The sun has been really strong since the early 2000s. It's a shame that the Southern hemisphere got that affected given it probably produced less than 20% of the damage.
stephen_g 4y ago
Yeah, we tend to get a triple-whammy down south. I recall reading that the tilt of the earth, as well as atmospheric pollution make even more of a difference. If I recall the figures correctly, the UV hole can increase UV by ~3% in the southern hemisphere compared to the northern hemisphere, but the fact we tilt slightly closer to the sun in summer than the northern hemisphere makes 6-7% difference, and the fact that there is far less atmospheric pollution (aerosols, etc. that absorb some UV) in the south makes another ~6%. So even in summer when the UV hole is at its minimum, at the same distance from the equator you can have something like 12-14% more UV exposure than the northern hemisphere in summer. It's ironic that better pollution controls, while causing many health benefits, will potentially make things worse for skin cancer in the northern hemisphere by gradually increase the UV doses, so you all are going to have to get better at sun safety or melanoma will become a much bigger issue there.
- hackernewds 4y ago
  Are you implying that pollution will decrease the instances of skin cancer perpetuated by solar UV?
  - rhinoceraptor 4y ago
    They probably didn't mean to a large degree, but air pollution does scatter light and UV radiation. As well as cause breathing problems, asthma, probably lung cancer, etc.
  - stephen_g 4y ago
    Atmospheric pollution scatters and absorbs some UV light in the upper atmosphere and stops it reaching the ground. While reducing pollution is a net good, one unfortunate consequence of controlling and reducing the pollution that gets up to the upper atmosphere is that it will lead to a few percent increase in the UV dose people receive in the northern hemisphere. Skin cancer is associated with UV exposure so incidence of skin cancers will go up if sun safety is not observed.
  - Der_Einzige 4y ago
    Oh it's far more than that. Giant volcanic eruptions have been responsible for non negligible reductions in global temperatures due to reducing the sunlight which hits earth via scattering and other effects due to the pollution. Same reason for a "nuclear winter" post WW3
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  > but the fact we tilt slightly closer to the sun in summer than the northern hemisphere makes 6-7% difference How could that be a fact? Axial precession (a) has a period that is much longer than a year, meaning there is no systematic difference between the northern and southern hemispheres; and (b) has a period that is MUCH longer than a year, meaning the difference between the northern and southern hemispheres in the same year is negligible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_parallelism#Earth's_axial_parallelism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_parallelism#Earth's_axia... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession#History
Synaesthesia 4y ago
I live in Pretoria, South Africa. Every day my weather app tells me the UV levels are "extreme" (over 11). The sun here definitely hits a lot harder than in Europe. https://sawx.co.za/uv-index-south-africa/tshwane-pretoria/ https://sawx.co.za/uv-index-south-africa/tshwane-pretoria/

junofan 4y ago

> Looking at stratospheric aerosol injection, “is in our wheelhouse,” he added. > There is a lot of uncertainty in their findings, Dr. Fahey said, but the basic message is that trying to cool the planet by 0.5 degree Celsius (0.9 degree Fahrenheit), say, through the use of sulfur aerosols, would have some effect on ozone. Why are these people qualified to mess with our climate?

whatshisface 4y ago
Because they know more than me and I'm already messing it up. :-) Seriously, it is already too late to not change it.
- junofan 4y ago
  Why these individuals?
  - Waterluvian 4y ago
    Why any individuals? Nobody is fully qualified in the eyes of all laypeople so let us do nothing.
  - themitigating 4y ago
    Because they study this and it's part of their career. That's enough.
userbinator 4y ago
through the use of sulfur aerosols This is actually already happening somewhat, due to the use of high-sulfur fuel oil by container ships. Of course, the irony is that certain organisations are attempting to lower this sulfur content, without the realisation that it's actually helping to moderate the temperature of the planet.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- 4y ago

121110987654321 4y ago

I am confused by the transition in this story. Did the same assessment simultaneously measure both the decreasing "Chinese rogue production" and potential effects of geoengineering?

xwdv 4y ago

It always gives me some faith again to hear the ozone layer is recovering. I feel that if this crisis had began in our current times I would resign myself to believing the ozone layer would completely disappear at some point and we’d be cooked.

jonathankoren 4y ago
You weren't the only one to think about the complete loss of the ozone layer. Remember the Sunblock 5000 commercial from Robocop 2? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oJzfmWO3CU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oJzfmWO3CU

wyldfire 4y ago

My one-step-shy-of-tinfoil-hat dad loves to say that he thinks climate change is BS. He has no expertise on which to claim this, but when prompted he'll cite "it used to be that we had to worry about the ozone layer ... " -- I'll patiently explain how the Montreal Protocol has mitigated the problem, that's why it doesn't come up anymore. And bringing up the ozone layer is actually a great case for policies that intervene to preserve our environment. He'll generally change the subject or focus on some other modern "dystopia" rather than acknowledge being wrong.

crackercrews 4y ago
When the ozone layer was being depleted, did the scientists sounding the alarm say that it could be healed in this period of time? Honest question. If not then your father might be reacting to doomsaying that turned out to be overzealous.
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
  At the time there wasn't much focus on timelines (besides being a long term undertaking), only that there was a hole in the ozone layer and that it could be fixed by avoiding certain refrigerants. As they were taken off the market the progress in regulating the CFCs and the ozone layer healing was noted, and it faded away as a concern. At the time I lived under said hole, so it was in the news quite a bit.
- krisoft 4y ago
  > If not then your father might be reacting to doomsaying that turned out to be overzealous. Also known as the: Boy-who-cried-wolf-so-we-hired-hunters-who-killed-the-wolfs-and-look-there-is-no-wolfs-anymore-stupid-boy story.
heavyset_go 4y ago
Bring up the fact that it's going to take decades for the ozone layer to reach its previous levels. We still have to worry about the ozone layer, it leads to higher rates of skin and eye disease, including cancers, it can have deleterious effects on plants, phytoplankton and fish, and it can accelerate the breakdown of different materials[1]. Increased radiation reaching the surface of the Earth has a ton of effects on humans that are pretty awful[2]. [1] https://www.epa.gov/ozone-layer-protection/health-and-environmental-effects-ozone-layer-depletion https://www.epa.gov/ozone-layer-protection/health-and-enviro... [2] https://www.epa.gov/sunsafety/health-effects-uv-radiation https://www.epa.gov/sunsafety/health-effects-uv-radiation

tigerlily 4y ago

I live in the southern hemisphere, and I've travelled a bit. The sunlight where I live is of a hard, stark, dazzling kind. A brilliant white that reflects off surfaces with increased intensity. It reminds me of the photos of spacewalking astronauts doing repairs, their suits ablaze and every surface overexposed. I find sunglasses a must-have in these conditions. Sitting in the sunlight on an even mildly sunny day is scary. If you're paying attention, after only five minutes you'll notice a burning sensation on your exposed limbs. And that is actually what is happening - you're being fried by the Sun's rays.

kmlx 4y ago
i know what you mean. australia has an UV index in summer between 10 and 14. sun protection is usually recommended between 9am and 6pm. thus skin cancer is australia’s most common cancer. i found this paper to be pretty interesting: https://niwa.co.nz/sites/niwa.co.nz/files/import/attachments/Liley_2.pdf https://niwa.co.nz/sites/niwa.co.nz/files/import/attachments...
bamboozled 4y ago
This sounds funny but I actually really dislike the light in Australia in summer. It's really white, washed out and sterile, it sounds weird but it kind of makes me feel a bit depressed. Similar to how I hate the light from fluorescent bulbs. I'm not sure if this has to do with just the angle of the sun or the hole in the ozone layer? But it's definitely something I've not really felt in many other places, or I've ever seen in the Northern Hemisphere. Early morning and afternoon on a Sydney beach is beautiful, Midday ? No thanks.