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Bitcoin already went mainstream; everyone who cares has heard all about bitcoin for years now, it's permeated pop culture, referenced in TV, movies, music, even

Bitcoin already went mainstream; everyone who cares has heard all about bitcoin for years now, it's permeated pop culture, referenced in TV, movies, music, even superbowl ads - we've reached peak bitcoin saturation. The problem for cryptocurrencies is that that they just aren't very useful to the masses, thus the vision of "mainstream" as imagined with desktop PCs will never happen for bitcoin - what we have today is basically all bitcoin will ever be.

serial_dev 4y ago
I know that everyone has a different idea of "mainstream" for bitcoin, but to me would be that I can expect to use it to pay for "regular stuff". Maybe paying at the bakery is never going to happen with crypto, but would be nice if I could pay my next car or used car with it.
- aaronwalker 4y ago
  I'd like this to, but to me it's still unclear whether Bitcoin's potential will be just as a reserve currency and store-of-value (like Gold), or also as a unit of account and medium of exchange (like the dollar). I'm more confident in the former and less on the latter.
- tosihakkeri 4y ago
  That’s the problem: the problems Bitcoin is solving aren’t problems in the first place.
  - lottin 4y ago
    Yeah, I can't imagine anybody wanting to buy a car and being deterred because they didn't have a means of exchange.
    - mrguyorama 4y ago
      When someone bought my car we used cash. How is bitcoin superior to being able to take physical property in my hand that I know will be respected 1:1 by every legitimate institution, business, or person I know?
      - lottin 4y ago
        I don't think bitcoin is superior, in fact I think it's inferior, that's the point.
- root_axis 4y ago
  > to me would be that I can expect to use it to pay for "regular stuff". There would be many difficult practical barriers to overcome for this to happen, and more importantly, nobody has any incentive to overcome those barriers. In fact, for almost everyone bitcoin is objectively worse than government issue currency. > would be nice if I could pay my next car or used car with it. Why would this be nice? It's totally irrelevant. Certainly the masses do not care at all, they're only concerned with the specs of the car.
aaronwalker 4y ago
There's a difference between being known by the mainstream and being used by the mainstream. Bitcoin is the former, but not yet the latter. It appears that Bitcoin's main use case is as a long-term store of value (like Gold, but digital). It will be very helpful to have a currency that anyone can use without one country's central bank controlling it, and with Bitcoin's strong network effects, its only a matter of time before it becomes adopted by more commercial banks, central banks, and individuals.
- root_axis 4y ago
  > It appears that Bitcoin's main use case is as a long-term store of value If we grant this for the sake of discussion, bitcoin has been capable of this for more than a decade, the masses aren't interested in this, the only thing they like about bitcoin is the fun of gambling which is the mainstream success I referred to in my previous comment. > It will be very helpful to have a currency that anyone can use without one country's central bank controlling it Again, bitcoin has been capable of this since the beginning, it's a niche use case that has its place but the masses don't care, central bank money will always be superior due to its intrinsic connection to the governing authority of the region that mediates the economy - people want their stuff, they don't want bitcoin and have no reason to use it. > its only a matter of time before it becomes adopted by more commercial banks, central banks, and individuals. There's no reason for them to do so, least of all a monetary authority like a central bank. Peak bitcoin is what bitcoin looks like today.
  - aaronwalker 4y ago
    > the masses aren't interested in this Having a store of value is in fact appealing to the masses, especially those with weak national currencies. We know this because the rates of crypto adoption are highest in developing nations, where national currencies are not as strong. Yes, the possibility of making a lucrative investment is also appealing, and is what's driving most of its current growth, but as BTC settles into its role as store-of-value (which may take 10+ years) it is expected to become less volatile, and adopted for this use case. > central bank money will always be superior due to its intrinsic connection to the governing authority of the region that mediates the economy There are two sides to this sword. In wealthy, democratic governments this allows for more control over the economy, boosting it in times of need, but for oppressive regimes it just gives the government more power to act in their own interest. > * people want their stuff, they don't want bitcoin and have no reason to use it.* People do not immediately use all of their wealth to consume things, instead they have to store some of it somewhere. This is one of the uses of currencies. In countries with high inflation there is difficulty for people to store any wealth at all in their central bank's currency, and have instead resorted to Gold, USD, and Bitcoin. > Peak bitcoin is what bitcoin looks like today. If peak BTC is what it looks like today, then there is no incentive for people to keep pouring money into it, so its value relative to Gold, USD should not increase too much from what it is today. I believe we are still far away from peak Bitcoin, and that Bitcoin will continue to rise in value in terms of USD over the long run.

serial_dev 4y ago

I know that everyone has a different idea of "mainstream" for bitcoin, but to me would be that I can expect to use it to pay for "regular stuff". Maybe paying at the bakery is never going to happen with crypto, but would be nice if I could pay my next car or used car with it.

aaronwalker 4y ago
I'd like this to, but to me it's still unclear whether Bitcoin's potential will be just as a reserve currency and store-of-value (like Gold), or also as a unit of account and medium of exchange (like the dollar). I'm more confident in the former and less on the latter.
tosihakkeri 4y ago
That’s the problem: the problems Bitcoin is solving aren’t problems in the first place.
- lottin 4y ago
  Yeah, I can't imagine anybody wanting to buy a car and being deterred because they didn't have a means of exchange.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    When someone bought my car we used cash. How is bitcoin superior to being able to take physical property in my hand that I know will be respected 1:1 by every legitimate institution, business, or person I know?
    - lottin 4y ago
      I don't think bitcoin is superior, in fact I think it's inferior, that's the point.
root_axis 4y ago
> to me would be that I can expect to use it to pay for "regular stuff". There would be many difficult practical barriers to overcome for this to happen, and more importantly, nobody has any incentive to overcome those barriers. In fact, for almost everyone bitcoin is objectively worse than government issue currency. > would be nice if I could pay my next car or used car with it. Why would this be nice? It's totally irrelevant. Certainly the masses do not care at all, they're only concerned with the specs of the car.

aaronwalker 4y ago

There's a difference between being known by the mainstream and being used by the mainstream. Bitcoin is the former, but not yet the latter. It appears that Bitcoin's main use case is as a long-term store of value (like Gold, but digital). It will be very helpful to have a currency that anyone can use without one country's central bank controlling it, and with Bitcoin's strong network effects, its only a matter of time before it becomes adopted by more commercial banks, central banks, and individuals.

root_axis 4y ago
> It appears that Bitcoin's main use case is as a long-term store of value If we grant this for the sake of discussion, bitcoin has been capable of this for more than a decade, the masses aren't interested in this, the only thing they like about bitcoin is the fun of gambling which is the mainstream success I referred to in my previous comment. > It will be very helpful to have a currency that anyone can use without one country's central bank controlling it Again, bitcoin has been capable of this since the beginning, it's a niche use case that has its place but the masses don't care, central bank money will always be superior due to its intrinsic connection to the governing authority of the region that mediates the economy - people want their stuff, they don't want bitcoin and have no reason to use it. > its only a matter of time before it becomes adopted by more commercial banks, central banks, and individuals. There's no reason for them to do so, least of all a monetary authority like a central bank. Peak bitcoin is what bitcoin looks like today.
- aaronwalker 4y ago
  > the masses aren't interested in this Having a store of value is in fact appealing to the masses, especially those with weak national currencies. We know this because the rates of crypto adoption are highest in developing nations, where national currencies are not as strong. Yes, the possibility of making a lucrative investment is also appealing, and is what's driving most of its current growth, but as BTC settles into its role as store-of-value (which may take 10+ years) it is expected to become less volatile, and adopted for this use case. > central bank money will always be superior due to its intrinsic connection to the governing authority of the region that mediates the economy There are two sides to this sword. In wealthy, democratic governments this allows for more control over the economy, boosting it in times of need, but for oppressive regimes it just gives the government more power to act in their own interest. > * people want their stuff, they don't want bitcoin and have no reason to use it.* People do not immediately use all of their wealth to consume things, instead they have to store some of it somewhere. This is one of the uses of currencies. In countries with high inflation there is difficulty for people to store any wealth at all in their central bank's currency, and have instead resorted to Gold, USD, and Bitcoin. > Peak bitcoin is what bitcoin looks like today. If peak BTC is what it looks like today, then there is no incentive for people to keep pouring money into it, so its value relative to Gold, USD should not increase too much from what it is today. I believe we are still far away from peak Bitcoin, and that Bitcoin will continue to rise in value in terms of USD over the long run.