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Reading the blog and the comment section as a european, I realise how Europe feels nowhere near as dangerous as natural parks in the US, less extreme weather co

by lairv 4y ago

Reading the blog and the comment section as a european, I realise how Europe feels nowhere near as dangerous as natural parks in the US, less extreme weather conditions, mostly no dangerous wildlife and less environment diversity (mostly moutains, no desert) I've done some hiking and camping in the Alps, and while some surprise thunder had me stop for 30 minutes, there never was sudden storms or weather change which really put me in life threatening situations I wonder how much of those "Death in ..." stories are about foreigners who misevaluated the landscape and weather differences between their home country and those national park

rm445 4y ago
Yeah, I remember reading a long-form story about the 'Death Valley Germans' from this site, and it was so sad - a family with young kids, that just hadn't comprehended how far they could be from help when they got into trouble in the USA. That heading towards the local military base might not help when everything is so huge that all you'll see is miles of fence.
- scruple 4y ago
  It's a good read. Can be found here [0]. [0]: https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/ https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hu...
  - lairv 4y ago
    Fascinating read and investigation, although it gets a little obsessive in the end
  - twelve40 4y ago
    omg thank you for sharing that, while their actual fate is terrible, it's laid out almost like a netflix series, can't stop reading it
  - nullsense 4y ago
    That was wild.
kerkeslager 4y ago
I don't think the difference is really as much about less extreme weather, wildlife, or environmental diversity as it is about size. There are plenty of people who have died in the Alps due to unexpected storms. There maybe aren't as many large predators in Europe, but there are still poisonous snakes, and the most deadly animal in both the US and Europe is bees--allergic reactions to stings can occur even in people who have previously been stung without reaction. And there are deserts in Spain (which are quite beautiful!). What Europe doesn't have, is 100km stretches without a single bit of civilization. I've been to parts of the US where there are signs telling you to fill your gas tank fully before leaving, because the next gas station is so far away. If you get stranded partway through the journey, there's no cell signal even though the land is flat with nothing to block signals, because you're so far away that the curvature of the earth blocks the signal. That's on roads through desert plains: if you go into the mountains on foot you can easily be even further (in travel time) from civilization. If you get stung by a bee and have an allergic reaction in the Alps, you're probably within a 15 minute helicopter ride of a hospital, with cell service and other hikers nearby to assist. If you get stung by a bee and have an allergic reaction in the Rockies, you may not see another hiker for a few hours, and if you do, neither of you will have a way to contact a helicopter, which will then have a lot of space to cover to find you, and then will have to take you further. On a related note, when I lived in NYC, a friend from the UK asked if I could pick him up from the airport... in Buffalo. Yes, NYC and Buffalo are in the same state, but they're opposite sides of that state. Here's a comparison of that state to the entire UK: [1] https://external-preview.redd.it/sihkYJaYp-ZALJToGKSGpJ6aRLjq1TlzaHCNLHbiplI.png https://external-preview.redd.it/sihkYJaYp-ZALJToGKSGpJ6aRLj...
tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
Absolutely, this. Also, different standards when it comes to warnings. Munich has a park with a nice "lazy river" style creek, which at some point downstream has a dangerous "artificial wave". It's perfectly safe under two conditions: You can swim, and you get out before it reaches the dangerous part. The best entrances to that creek and its pools, far from the dangerous part, where you will find dozens of people swimming, are marked with signs saying "DANGER TO LIFE. SWIMMING FORBIDDEN", complete with skulls and everything. Meanwhile, the US is considered, perhaps unjustifiedly, as a country full of meaningless, exaggerated warnings. In my experience, nothing could be further from the truth when it comes to natural dangers. Combine being used to the European level of excessive caution around nature, with the reputation the US has for exaggerated warnings, with the reality that nature-related warning signs in the US tend to not exaggerate, and you get dead people. Imagine seeing a sign "Dangerous. Do not attempt to follow this abandoned trail" - no absolute prohibition, just a soft recommendation, not even "DANGER TO LIFE" just "dangerous" - with this background, and you can see why "Germans die in {death valley, yellowstone, ...}" is such a thing.

by lairv 4y ago

rm445 4y ago

Yeah, I remember reading a long-form story about the 'Death Valley Germans' from this site, and it was so sad - a family with young kids, that just hadn't comprehended how far they could be from help when they got into trouble in the USA. That heading towards the local military base might not help when everything is so huge that all you'll see is miles of fence.

scruple 4y ago
It's a good read. Can be found here [0]. [0]: https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/ https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hu...
- lairv 4y ago
  Fascinating read and investigation, although it gets a little obsessive in the end
- twelve40 4y ago
  omg thank you for sharing that, while their actual fate is terrible, it's laid out almost like a netflix series, can't stop reading it
- nullsense 4y ago
  That was wild.

kerkeslager 4y ago

I don't think the difference is really as much about less extreme weather, wildlife, or environmental diversity as it is about size. There are plenty of people who have died in the Alps due to unexpected storms. There maybe aren't as many large predators in Europe, but there are still poisonous snakes, and the most deadly animal in both the US and Europe is bees--allergic reactions to stings can occur even in people who have previously been stung without reaction. And there are deserts in Spain (which are quite beautiful!). What Europe doesn't have, is 100km stretches without a single bit of civilization. I've been to parts of the US where there are signs telling you to fill your gas tank fully before leaving, because the next gas station is so far away. If you get stranded partway through the journey, there's no cell signal even though the land is flat with nothing to block signals, because you're so far away that the curvature of the earth blocks the signal. That's on roads through desert plains: if you go into the mountains on foot you can easily be even further (in travel time) from civilization. If you get stung by a bee and have an allergic reaction in the Alps, you're probably within a 15 minute helicopter ride of a hospital, with cell service and other hikers nearby to assist. If you get stung by a bee and have an allergic reaction in the Rockies, you may not see another hiker for a few hours, and if you do, neither of you will have a way to contact a helicopter, which will then have a lot of space to cover to find you, and then will have to take you further. On a related note, when I lived in NYC, a friend from the UK asked if I could pick him up from the airport... in Buffalo. Yes, NYC and Buffalo are in the same state, but they're opposite sides of that state. Here's a comparison of that state to the entire UK: [1] https://external-preview.redd.it/sihkYJaYp-ZALJToGKSGpJ6aRLjq1TlzaHCNLHbiplI.png https://external-preview.redd.it/sihkYJaYp-ZALJToGKSGpJ6aRLj...

tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago

Absolutely, this. Also, different standards when it comes to warnings. Munich has a park with a nice "lazy river" style creek, which at some point downstream has a dangerous "artificial wave". It's perfectly safe under two conditions: You can swim, and you get out before it reaches the dangerous part. The best entrances to that creek and its pools, far from the dangerous part, where you will find dozens of people swimming, are marked with signs saying "DANGER TO LIFE. SWIMMING FORBIDDEN", complete with skulls and everything. Meanwhile, the US is considered, perhaps unjustifiedly, as a country full of meaningless, exaggerated warnings. In my experience, nothing could be further from the truth when it comes to natural dangers. Combine being used to the European level of excessive caution around nature, with the reputation the US has for exaggerated warnings, with the reality that nature-related warning signs in the US tend to not exaggerate, and you get dead people. Imagine seeing a sign "Dangerous. Do not attempt to follow this abandoned trail" - no absolute prohibition, just a soft recommendation, not even "DANGER TO LIFE" just "dangerous" - with this background, and you can see why "Germans die in {death valley, yellowstone, ...}" is such a thing.