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>Sadly, these are mostly types of common sense. The lack thereof is the real issue, not ones experience level. I've spent a lot of time teaching rock climbing,

>Sadly, these are mostly types of common sense. The lack thereof is the real issue, not ones experience level. I've spent a lot of time teaching rock climbing, and just about every aspect thereof. Something I saw again and again is that what I understood to be "common sense" was simply that which I had forgotten learning. Autobelay accidents are a really good illustration of this: the most important safety check is to confirm you're clipped to the lanyard by tugging on it, before you leave the ground. Verifying that your safety system works as expected is perhaps the most crucial of the safety practices taught in the basic belay class, and yet, noted guidebook author Rob Kelman had a pretty serious autobelay accident, after climbing for 40 some-odd years prior. He actually lectured me about how safety-minded he was, a year or two before that accident. I read about a rappel accident in Wyoming last year that would've been entirely prevented by backing up the rotten old rappel slings, and the victim never even mentioned checking said slings before trusting them. That's not an absence of "common sense", that's having too high an opinion of your own abilities. I've personally witnessed several climbing accidents, and the unifying factor was that the victims were people whose training and experience (in their minds at any rate) should have rendered them impervious to situations like what they had just landed in (frequently violently). If there's any "common sense" advice I would give to people, it is to not let your guard down in the wild. No amount of training or forethought will let you completely avoid these situations, do not think you are too smart to avoid a bad situation. That's what I got from the article, and it certainly rings true for me.

broguinn 4y ago
I've heard this referred to as the "safety bell curve" - when you're new to a sport or dangerous activity, you don't know what you're doing and are at elevated risk. The same is true for people who have been doing that same activity for 10+ years: they stop actively thinking about their safety, and fall victim to human fallibility. I don't know if there's one perfect solution for this phenomenon. Checklists and social reinforcement are the best I've found within the climbing community.
wcarron 4y ago
I catch your drift on the common sense is just forgotten learning. That's probably closer to the truth than we'd all like to be told. Thing is, I don't think you've contradicted me re: too much confidence in your abilities. It's basically like rolling Nat20s in Dungeons and Dragons. Eventually everyone runs into a situation they need to get out of, A.K.A 'roll to save' (I think that's the correct term). You can reduce to times you need to 'roll a nat 20' by improving your skills, knowledge, and gear. Or you can think of those things as removing sides from the die, making it more likely you can get a positive result. When you're accomplished and capable outdoors, though, whatever puts you on your ass is probably not just a paper cut. A higher ceiling of competence drags the floor of consequences up with it. Even more so than that though, the best way to stay safe is to not put yourself in situations where you need to "roll a nat 20" to save yourself or avoid something bad happening. I.e "don't let your guard down" is a preventative, and the saying goes 'something something an ounce of it...'

broguinn 4y ago

I've heard this referred to as the "safety bell curve" - when you're new to a sport or dangerous activity, you don't know what you're doing and are at elevated risk. The same is true for people who have been doing that same activity for 10+ years: they stop actively thinking about their safety, and fall victim to human fallibility. I don't know if there's one perfect solution for this phenomenon. Checklists and social reinforcement are the best I've found within the climbing community.

wcarron 4y ago

I catch your drift on the common sense is just forgotten learning. That's probably closer to the truth than we'd all like to be told. Thing is, I don't think you've contradicted me re: too much confidence in your abilities. It's basically like rolling Nat20s in Dungeons and Dragons. Eventually everyone runs into a situation they need to get out of, A.K.A 'roll to save' (I think that's the correct term). You can reduce to times you need to 'roll a nat 20' by improving your skills, knowledge, and gear. Or you can think of those things as removing sides from the die, making it more likely you can get a positive result. When you're accomplished and capable outdoors, though, whatever puts you on your ass is probably not just a paper cut. A higher ceiling of competence drags the floor of consequences up with it. Even more so than that though, the best way to stay safe is to not put yourself in situations where you need to "roll a nat 20" to save yourself or avoid something bad happening. I.e "don't let your guard down" is a preventative, and the saying goes 'something something an ounce of it...'