6 ms·

I've kept a shielded bag in the car and house for a while now for that purpose. Rather than futz with settings, just drop it in the bag when I want some "off-g

I've kept a shielded bag in the car and house for a while now for that purpose. Rather than futz with settings, just drop it in the bag when I want some "off-grid" time. Apple's latest update clearly states that even when off, they can still location discover the phone.

belltaco 4y ago
Doesn't that mean one'd miss emergency calls or urgent texts from family and friends?
- csdvrx 4y ago
  > Doesn't that mean one'd miss emergency calls or urgent texts from family and friends? In case of emergency dial 911, not me: - If it's not worth calling 911, it's not an emergency. - If it's worth calling 911, I can't help with the actual emergency.
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
    I think you're missing the case where the hospital is trying to let you know about the state of your loved one.
    - wongarsu 4y ago
      How often is that happening out of the blue? Sure, if a loved one has a serious health condition try to be reachable. But it's not something most people have to be concerned about.
      - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
        > How often is that happening out of the blue? Very rarely, but I'd rather know that not. That's pretty much the idea of an emergency. I know I've had a handful of them in my life and I think they were worth it. If you don't want to be available for those, fair enough.
        lrvick 4y ago
        If that is really the only reason to carry a device, and not because of any addiction to surveillance capitalism services, then a pager is likely a reasonable middle ground.
        SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
        Of course the only reasons I own a cell phone aren't just emergency calls and "surveillance capitalism services", but they could also effectively geofence with a pager, could they not? It's still a phone number that's being connected to cell towers.
        lrvick 4y ago
        Most pagers are one-way receive-only devices with no transmit ability. Messages are spammed to -every- tower and your device will pick it up if in range. You can not track a pager any more than you can track an FM radio.
        SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
        Huh, I didn't know that. So, wait, they send the pager message across the entire service area? How big is this range? Can it be nationwide? And that carries some privacy implications too, doesn't it? I can't imagine these message are encrypted. Also, are we now asking that emergency services start sending out paging messages to the next of kin?
        lrvick 4y ago
        Nationwide coverage is more expensive, but is an option in most plans, yes. Some pagers support encryption for even higher fees but consider it to be no stronger than SMS.
      - rootusrootus 4y ago
        My older brother habitually turns his phone off when he goes to bed. Not even legitimate calls from family could make it through. So when I tried to contact him urgently about our younger brother, I got nothing but voicemail. I left a voicemail, and he got back to me in the morning. My younger brother had since died. He'd have died anyway. Sure. But still, I have to tell you that my older brother was really upset knowing he had missed that call by his own choice.
        csdvrx 4y ago
        From the parent poster: > > "I think you're missing the case where the hospital is trying to let you know about the state of your loved one." But how is any information about the state of someone will impact the course of actions for that person? > He'd have died anyway Exactly this. Maybe it's stoicism, but personally I don't know how I would be upset about actions I couldn't change. If anything, the voicemail saved your brother a good night of sleep, that would have been otherwise wasted doing... what exactly? Pre mourning? Creating some familial unity by suffering together? Scaring him emotionally by having to hold the hand of a dying person? I just don't understand all this.
  - barbazoo 4y ago
    Awesome, you just outsmarted your spouse that tried telling you that your kid is having a medical emergency.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - deltree7 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      Sure, “hot chicks” and celebrities. ...and political dissidents. So, Hot chicks, celebrities, and political dissidents. Are you seeing how this becomes the Spanish Inquisition sketch?
    - anigbrowl 4y ago
      Retailers and other consumers of business intelligence care a great deal, it's just not personal. It's easy to imagine numerous other categories of people for whom it is personal, from bounty hunters to political actors. Anyway, even if your argument were true, why should the 'hot chicks' (who comprise a measurable fraction of the population, and haven't especially sought out public attention, unlike politicians and celebrities) have to put up with being considered acceptable targets for stalking?
      - deltree7 4y ago
        - Hot chicks have 1000x threats from Neighbors snooping, security guards watching cameras and plain old leering on the streets / real world. Their threat from Large Cos collecting data is neglible or near zero.
        anigbrowl 4y ago
        Then why did you bring it up? Please don't waste everyone's time with such empty talk. I regret thinking you were trying to make some sort of serious point.
- barbazoo 4y ago
  Well, yes, but that's part of being "off-grid" as parent described.
- wongarsu 4y ago
  Until about two decades ago, not being reachable 24/7 was the norm. And somehow we survived.
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    Hmm, I wonder how long we’ll have to wait for some dead people to come along and make the obvious counter argument. Mortality rates among teens and children have generally been going down as far as I know (putting aside any pandemic related skews).
  - a4isms 4y ago
    Yes, provided one acknowledges that we survived not having 24/7 communications almost everywhere, but others did not. Same as saying that before the nanny state passed laws requiring children to wear bicycle helmets, we not only rode bikes without helmets, we tried to emulate Evil Knievel by jumping our bikes off ramps leaning against rickety wooden produce crates. Yes, we survived. But I knew a boy who did not. I am not telling anyone that they have a moral imperative to carry a cell phone everywhere. But I am saying that just because we (I am sixty) grew up without such technology and turned out all right, does not mean there is no risk.
    - justinpombrio 4y ago
      > Yes, we survived. But I knew a boy who did not. I'm sorry. What happened to him that a cell phone would have prevented? Medical emergency far from land lines, took too long to reach 911?
    - FpUser 4y ago
      >"But I am saying that just because we (I am sixty) grew up without such technology and turned out all right, does not mean there is no risk." I am 61 and I understand that yes there is a risk. But maybe this is the risk worth taking. As a kid I walked to school and back every day and generally much of my life at that point and later on was spent outside. I am now looking at my 8 year old grandson, all the gizmos he has, access to information and being constantly accompanied by adult for security. I love him and sort of feel very sorry. I think no fucking way I would trade the type of childhood freedom I had to the one most of modern kids are having.
- lrvick 4y ago
  One-way pagers are a thing if this is really a concern, but humans survived without phones for most of our existence. I do not carry a phone but my family generally knows where I am if they need to call an office or a business to summon me in an emergency. I am offline, unreachable, and focused while driving, but I consider this a good thing.
- dexterdog 4y ago
  You're either off-grid or you're on-grid. If you want to be reached you have to be on.
gnicholas 4y ago
IIRC this is a feature that is on by default but can be disabled when you turn off the phone. I believe it has to be disabled every time you turn off the phone — it doesn't remember your preference. I don't know if when you disable this feature it actually makes the phone unfindable, or if it just transmits its normal beacon, but with a message attached that says 'ignore me' (which would obviously make you still findable by Apple, if they were compelled).

belltaco 4y ago

Doesn't that mean one'd miss emergency calls or urgent texts from family and friends?

csdvrx 4y ago
> Doesn't that mean one'd miss emergency calls or urgent texts from family and friends? In case of emergency dial 911, not me: - If it's not worth calling 911, it's not an emergency. - If it's worth calling 911, I can't help with the actual emergency.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  I think you're missing the case where the hospital is trying to let you know about the state of your loved one.
  - wongarsu 4y ago
    How often is that happening out of the blue? Sure, if a loved one has a serious health condition try to be reachable. But it's not something most people have to be concerned about.
    - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
      > How often is that happening out of the blue? Very rarely, but I'd rather know that not. That's pretty much the idea of an emergency. I know I've had a handful of them in my life and I think they were worth it. If you don't want to be available for those, fair enough.
      - lrvick 4y ago
        If that is really the only reason to carry a device, and not because of any addiction to surveillance capitalism services, then a pager is likely a reasonable middle ground.
        SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
        Of course the only reasons I own a cell phone aren't just emergency calls and "surveillance capitalism services", but they could also effectively geofence with a pager, could they not? It's still a phone number that's being connected to cell towers.
        lrvick 4y ago
        Most pagers are one-way receive-only devices with no transmit ability. Messages are spammed to -every- tower and your device will pick it up if in range. You can not track a pager any more than you can track an FM radio.
        SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
        Huh, I didn't know that. So, wait, they send the pager message across the entire service area? How big is this range? Can it be nationwide? And that carries some privacy implications too, doesn't it? I can't imagine these message are encrypted. Also, are we now asking that emergency services start sending out paging messages to the next of kin?
        lrvick 4y ago
        Nationwide coverage is more expensive, but is an option in most plans, yes. Some pagers support encryption for even higher fees but consider it to be no stronger than SMS.
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      My older brother habitually turns his phone off when he goes to bed. Not even legitimate calls from family could make it through. So when I tried to contact him urgently about our younger brother, I got nothing but voicemail. I left a voicemail, and he got back to me in the morning. My younger brother had since died. He'd have died anyway. Sure. But still, I have to tell you that my older brother was really upset knowing he had missed that call by his own choice.
      - csdvrx 4y ago
        From the parent poster: > > "I think you're missing the case where the hospital is trying to let you know about the state of your loved one." But how is any information about the state of someone will impact the course of actions for that person? > He'd have died anyway Exactly this. Maybe it's stoicism, but personally I don't know how I would be upset about actions I couldn't change. If anything, the voicemail saved your brother a good night of sleep, that would have been otherwise wasted doing... what exactly? Pre mourning? Creating some familial unity by suffering together? Scaring him emotionally by having to hold the hand of a dying person? I just don't understand all this.
- barbazoo 4y ago
  Awesome, you just outsmarted your spouse that tried telling you that your kid is having a medical emergency.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- deltree7 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    Sure, “hot chicks” and celebrities. ...and political dissidents. So, Hot chicks, celebrities, and political dissidents. Are you seeing how this becomes the Spanish Inquisition sketch?
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    Retailers and other consumers of business intelligence care a great deal, it's just not personal. It's easy to imagine numerous other categories of people for whom it is personal, from bounty hunters to political actors. Anyway, even if your argument were true, why should the 'hot chicks' (who comprise a measurable fraction of the population, and haven't especially sought out public attention, unlike politicians and celebrities) have to put up with being considered acceptable targets for stalking?
    - deltree7 4y ago
      - Hot chicks have 1000x threats from Neighbors snooping, security guards watching cameras and plain old leering on the streets / real world. Their threat from Large Cos collecting data is neglible or near zero.
      - anigbrowl 4y ago
        Then why did you bring it up? Please don't waste everyone's time with such empty talk. I regret thinking you were trying to make some sort of serious point.
barbazoo 4y ago
Well, yes, but that's part of being "off-grid" as parent described.
wongarsu 4y ago
Until about two decades ago, not being reachable 24/7 was the norm. And somehow we survived.
- bee_rider 4y ago
  Hmm, I wonder how long we’ll have to wait for some dead people to come along and make the obvious counter argument. Mortality rates among teens and children have generally been going down as far as I know (putting aside any pandemic related skews).
- a4isms 4y ago
  Yes, provided one acknowledges that we survived not having 24/7 communications almost everywhere, but others did not. Same as saying that before the nanny state passed laws requiring children to wear bicycle helmets, we not only rode bikes without helmets, we tried to emulate Evil Knievel by jumping our bikes off ramps leaning against rickety wooden produce crates. Yes, we survived. But I knew a boy who did not. I am not telling anyone that they have a moral imperative to carry a cell phone everywhere. But I am saying that just because we (I am sixty) grew up without such technology and turned out all right, does not mean there is no risk.
  - justinpombrio 4y ago
    > Yes, we survived. But I knew a boy who did not. I'm sorry. What happened to him that a cell phone would have prevented? Medical emergency far from land lines, took too long to reach 911?
  - FpUser 4y ago
    >"But I am saying that just because we (I am sixty) grew up without such technology and turned out all right, does not mean there is no risk." I am 61 and I understand that yes there is a risk. But maybe this is the risk worth taking. As a kid I walked to school and back every day and generally much of my life at that point and later on was spent outside. I am now looking at my 8 year old grandson, all the gizmos he has, access to information and being constantly accompanied by adult for security. I love him and sort of feel very sorry. I think no fucking way I would trade the type of childhood freedom I had to the one most of modern kids are having.
lrvick 4y ago
One-way pagers are a thing if this is really a concern, but humans survived without phones for most of our existence. I do not carry a phone but my family generally knows where I am if they need to call an office or a business to summon me in an emergency. I am offline, unreachable, and focused while driving, but I consider this a good thing.
dexterdog 4y ago
You're either off-grid or you're on-grid. If you want to be reached you have to be on.

gnicholas 4y ago

IIRC this is a feature that is on by default but can be disabled when you turn off the phone. I believe it has to be disabled every time you turn off the phone — it doesn't remember your preference. I don't know if when you disable this feature it actually makes the phone unfindable, or if it just transmits its normal beacon, but with a message attached that says 'ignore me' (which would obviously make you still findable by Apple, if they were compelled).