5 ms·

most likely. that's how the pi foundation retains control to prevent cheap Chinese knock offs.

runnerup 4y ago
What does the DRM prevent, specifically? Any use of the camera ribbon cable interface by any non-licensed camera? Edit edit: I still have no idea...see reply from 'mrbteveman below. Old first edit (wrong): Apparently, yes. This comment[0](2019) explains it slightly more. Evidently the ribbon cable ("CSI interface") can be used by pretty much anything...as long as that thing is not a camera / doesn't need the usual on-board image processing. Evidently this prevents anyone from coming out with pi-compatible cameras with different features, e.g. different resolutions/framerates/night vision/infrared/zoom/etc. 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20261787 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20261787
- gnarbarian 4y ago
  I can't be specific but your answer seems correct based on my experience. it also makes it more challenging (unintentionally?) when trying to use the camera on other OSs like Ubuntu core.
- gnarbarian 4y ago
  in my experience you're better off just going with a USB camera most of the time. it's a cleaner abstraction point and supports more hardware and operating systems.
- mrsteveman1 4y ago
  > What does the DRM prevent, specifically? Any use of the camera ribbon cable interface by any non-licensed camera? > Apparently, yes. This comment[0](2019) explains it slightly more. Evidently the ribbon cable ("CSI interface") can be used by pretty much anything...as long as that thing is not a camera / doesn't need the usual on-board image processing. This isn't accurate, the only thing they do is limit specific sensors from being used unless there is a matching authentication chip on the module, because those specific sensors are the ones they have manufactured camera modules with. So for example the Pi Camera v2 module uses an imx219 sensor from sony and an authentication chip that the Pi firmware can check to verify the module was actually made by the Raspberry Pi company. If you buy a 3rd party imx219 camera module (which would not have that authentication chip), it will not work on the regular Pi boards (but it will work with the Pi compute module boards because they don't do the authentication chip verification). There have been plenty of 3rd party camera modules with entirely different sensors that work on the Pi for years, though with quirks related to the closed source drivers, but the modern libcamera stack on the Pi is explicitly designed to enable 3rd party camera modules.
  - BuckyBeaver 4y ago
    Really useful info, thanks. I've never heard of this. It's really disappointing. I have wondered if there are any very-high-quality cameras you can connect to a Pi, but found none. I guess this is why.
    - gnarbarian 4y ago
      there are but you connect them via USB
      - BuckyBeaver 4y ago
        But then you have the data-rate limitation of USB... is it equal to or better than that of the camera interface on the Pi? I have a Pi 4, but don't remember if it's USB 2 or 3.
        gnarbarian 4y ago
        it's 3
        BuckyBeaver 4y ago
        Thanks
RobotToaster 4y ago
For a company that likes to pretend it's a champion of open source, it's not very open source though, is it?
- BuckyBeaver 4y ago
  Yes, we can forgive them if a vendor refuses to release specs or source (Broadcom, for example), but implementing their own DRM to prevent others from making compatible cameras seems hypocritical and needlessly anti-user. Is there some legitimate, user-serving benefit to this move that isn't apparent?
  - gnarbarian 4y ago
    the raspberry pi foundation wants to recoup the cost and profit from the time and money spent to develop the raspberry pi camera software stack this benefits the user by nature of the stack existing. on the other hand now that an ecosystem has sprung up around this it's arguable that the DRM scheme is only needed to bootstrap the community
    - BuckyBeaver 4y ago
      Did THEY develop this stack, or did the open-source community?
      - gnarbarian 4y ago
        probably both
        BuckyBeaver 4y ago
        They have no business locking it down and preventing people from implementing higher-quality cameras, which would only add value to the Pi camera-interface "stack" anyway. No matter how you slice it, it's anti-community and encourages someone to come along and undermine the entire platform... which would REALLY squander the investment made.

What does the DRM prevent, specifically? Any use of the camera ribbon cable interface by any non-licensed camera? Edit edit: I still have no idea...see reply from 'mrbteveman below. Old first edit (wrong): Apparently, yes. This comment[0](2019) explains it slightly more. Evidently the ribbon cable ("CSI interface") can be used by pretty much anything...as long as that thing is not a camera / doesn't need the usual on-board image processing. Evidently this prevents anyone from coming out with pi-compatible cameras with different features, e.g. different resolutions/framerates/night vision/infrared/zoom/etc. 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20261787 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20261787

gnarbarian 4y ago
I can't be specific but your answer seems correct based on my experience. it also makes it more challenging (unintentionally?) when trying to use the camera on other OSs like Ubuntu core.
gnarbarian 4y ago
in my experience you're better off just going with a USB camera most of the time. it's a cleaner abstraction point and supports more hardware and operating systems.
mrsteveman1 4y ago
> What does the DRM prevent, specifically? Any use of the camera ribbon cable interface by any non-licensed camera? > Apparently, yes. This comment[0](2019) explains it slightly more. Evidently the ribbon cable ("CSI interface") can be used by pretty much anything...as long as that thing is not a camera / doesn't need the usual on-board image processing. This isn't accurate, the only thing they do is limit specific sensors from being used unless there is a matching authentication chip on the module, because those specific sensors are the ones they have manufactured camera modules with. So for example the Pi Camera v2 module uses an imx219 sensor from sony and an authentication chip that the Pi firmware can check to verify the module was actually made by the Raspberry Pi company. If you buy a 3rd party imx219 camera module (which would not have that authentication chip), it will not work on the regular Pi boards (but it will work with the Pi compute module boards because they don't do the authentication chip verification). There have been plenty of 3rd party camera modules with entirely different sensors that work on the Pi for years, though with quirks related to the closed source drivers, but the modern libcamera stack on the Pi is explicitly designed to enable 3rd party camera modules.
- BuckyBeaver 4y ago
  Really useful info, thanks. I've never heard of this. It's really disappointing. I have wondered if there are any very-high-quality cameras you can connect to a Pi, but found none. I guess this is why.
  - gnarbarian 4y ago
    there are but you connect them via USB
    - BuckyBeaver 4y ago
      But then you have the data-rate limitation of USB... is it equal to or better than that of the camera interface on the Pi? I have a Pi 4, but don't remember if it's USB 2 or 3.
      - gnarbarian 4y ago
        it's 3
        BuckyBeaver 4y ago
        Thanks

RobotToaster 4y ago

For a company that likes to pretend it's a champion of open source, it's not very open source though, is it?

BuckyBeaver 4y ago
Yes, we can forgive them if a vendor refuses to release specs or source (Broadcom, for example), but implementing their own DRM to prevent others from making compatible cameras seems hypocritical and needlessly anti-user. Is there some legitimate, user-serving benefit to this move that isn't apparent?
- gnarbarian 4y ago
  the raspberry pi foundation wants to recoup the cost and profit from the time and money spent to develop the raspberry pi camera software stack this benefits the user by nature of the stack existing. on the other hand now that an ecosystem has sprung up around this it's arguable that the DRM scheme is only needed to bootstrap the community
  - BuckyBeaver 4y ago
    Did THEY develop this stack, or did the open-source community?
    - gnarbarian 4y ago
      probably both
      - BuckyBeaver 4y ago
        They have no business locking it down and preventing people from implementing higher-quality cameras, which would only add value to the Pi camera-interface "stack" anyway. No matter how you slice it, it's anti-community and encourages someone to come along and undermine the entire platform... which would REALLY squander the investment made.