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> Vote with your feet, and your wallet. Sure, how do I cast my vote for a non-smart TV? Where do I go to watch my shows via DRM free downloads? How can I find

> Vote with your feet, and your wallet. Sure, how do I cast my vote for a non-smart TV? Where do I go to watch my shows via DRM free downloads? How can I find a washing machine that will last for 20 years? Beyond that, how do I even compare products and find what I want to "vote" for when everything is named something like Sony XP-3000-ZXS Pro that is exactly like the XP-300ZXS Pro+ except one has a water-proof coating and the other comes with patented GB-Free technology (you guess which is which). And to make it harder to compare, the models are subtly different between countries (Oh, you are in Israel? You only get the XP-300ZXS-B Pro+ which is different from the regular Pro+ but we won't tell you how, better look for some local reviews to be sure). It is obvious that most companies go out of their way to frustrate the customer's attempts to "vote with their wallet". It must be cheaper to just drill a brand name into their heads via ad spending then to actually produce a good product (definitely more scalable if you already have the money to spend on ads...). ... Apologies, rant over.

wrs 4y ago
There are plenty of non-smart TVs, at least, and plenty of HN threads telling you where to look (they are sold as commercial displays and digital signage). You will really have to vote with your wallet, though, because the smart TVs come with hundreds of dollars of price discount based on bundling of streaming service clients and their ability to send consumer tracking data.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  Not always - Sony Bravia conference room displays seem to be rebranded consumer models with clean firmware and the price is affordable. Maybe a small markup but nowhere near what you get on a digital signage display (and also it retains all the advantages of a consumer-grade TV such as speakers, remote, etc).
- TheHappyOddish 4y ago
  I spent months on this recently. Commercial displays are rarely available in retail quantities (e.g 1) in my country, and the few that are lack basics such as multiple HDMI ports, HDR, etc. The options may be greater for you, but they're limited for most of us.
taffer 4y ago
Sceptre[1] makes non-smart-TVs, Miele[2] washing machines are made to last 20 years. [1] https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV/U557CV-UMRB-55-4K-UHD-TV-product1428category1category73.html https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV/U557CV-UMRB-55-4K-UHD-T... [2] https://www.mieleusa.com/e/washing-machines-1015696-c https://www.mieleusa.com/e/washing-machines-1015696-c
- TheHappyOddish 4y ago
  Everything Sceptre sell appears to be "restock soon" or "out of stock" - is this a real company? Regardless, they don't appear to retail out of the US, so it's hardly a good option for most people.
- mhuffman 4y ago
  Sceptre certainly keeps that hidden! They need better marketers! For that price point and non-smart, I would have absolutely bought recently. But I have never heard of this brand until today.
  - JeremyNT 4y ago
    I have a Sceptre. Let's just say you get what you pay for. If you're concerned about screen quality, you should probably look elsewhere. I do love how dumb it is, though!
- pbronez 4y ago
  Thanks for sharing! What’s your evidence for Miele’s durability? Is it just their “pro at home” line, or all of them?
  - XajniN 4y ago
    Pretty much everything from Miele is built to last for decades. But it is expensive.
- xupybd 4y ago
  Fisher and Paykel also make washing machines that last. https://www.fisherpaykel.com/nz/laundry/washing-machines/ https://www.fisherpaykel.com/nz/laundry/washing-machines/
zelos 4y ago
> everything is named something like Sony XP-3000-ZXS Pro that is exactly like the XP-300ZXS Pro+ except… This drives me crazy. I don’t get how companies get this so wrong. I just spent hours looking for a tumble dryer and they’re all like that. Who are the people at these companies who think it’s a good idea to name your product a completely opaque alphanumeric jumble?
- otikik 4y ago
  Oh I know that one. It’s because they have slightly different models names for differ markets, and they figured out that using their internal code names was easier than paying someone to come up with easy, memorable names. So the model sold in Delaware is the UX-7200-D, and the one sold in The Netherlands is exactly the same item with a different power cord and instruction booklet. But it’s called NT-376xd because the Netherlands branch is actually a different company that was bought 2 years ago and they are still using their old system which has different codes for products.
  - IIsi50MHz 4y ago
    I usually have the reverse problem: the "memorable" marketing names are vague and have no clear indication of what's newer or what's better. Sometimes each is trying to convince you it's the best[1], meanwhile the internal engineering designations (sometimes discoverable on or in the product) more commonly have a clear progression[2], despite alphanumeric soup (a 2300X -Q3N is likely older than a 2317X-1A, and both are inferior to a 2600X-PTN-J). Seems to me, Motorola's phone names in USA went off the deep end sometime after the Moto G7, while international versions of many of the same phones retained their nice simple sequential numbering scheme. [1] Don't get me started on people who produce n versions of something then decide to name the next version "One" (or similar) "because its the only One you need, the best One; it's The One!" (when they really mean, "Weird, people can't figure out why they should upgrade when we didn't change anything much!")…which of course just screws them when they next try to get people to upgrade. …Oh, seems I got very thoroughly started. :faceplant: [2] Ignoring Sharp models for their phones and tablets, which can have name elements where a descending sequence in part of the name and an ascending sequence in another part of the same name identify whether this is a higher or lower model. And ignoring Apple, which decades ago decided reusing model IDs over and over is FineTM, forcing horrible things like "Well, it's a late 2015 iBook 15-inch with the <special feature that means you have a different case/keboard/camera/…> and the <special upgrade that means you have a different motherboard>".
thangalin 4y ago
> How can I find a washing machine that will last for 20 years? Try: site:reddit.com inurl:BuyItForLife "washing machine" > Sure, how do I cast my vote for a non-smart TV Don't buy one. There are plenty of other options. Computer monitors, for example, can double for a display and TV. This one is excellent (had mine for about a year without any problems): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099PJ8SPT https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099PJ8SPT
- agentdrtran 4y ago
  reddit is chock-full of astroturfing and someone's washer brand lasting 20 years doesn't mean their modern model will last 20 years.
throwaway14356 4y ago
> How can I find a washing machine that will last for 20 years? I know this one! You buy one build in the 70's maybe 80's chose the ones with crazy rpm
themadturk 4y ago
Bought a smart tv, but don't use the smart parts. The invitation to use the smart features closes itself after about 15 seconds, no problem.
AussieWog93 4y ago
>How can I find a washing machine that will last for 20 years? In all seriousness, check second hand sites like Facebook Marketplace. The price of an item new in the shops often has low correlation with its quality, but second-hand markets are ridiculously frugal and rational. Even if you don't want to buy used goods, the fact that an item which cost $499 ten years ago still sells for $300 used is a real testament to the quality of the brand. Low quality crap will usually lose at least 50% of its value once you've opened the box, and another 50% yet again after just a couple of years' use.
- sonofhans 4y ago
  I do this exactly. My washer and dryer are both over 20 years old and cost less than $200 each, used and mechanically refurbished. They have a couple dials each and do their jobs predictably.
- dachryn 4y ago
  assuming the brand still has the same standards today as they had 10 years ago. In many many cases that is not the case. After 2008-2012 quality of appliances reeeallllly went downhill
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
musicale 4y ago
> Where do I go to watch my shows via DRM free downloads? Vote with your feet becomes a bit more interesting here since the legal options are limited.
- pph 4y ago
  I suppose you could say: Vote with your sails.

wrs 4y ago

There are plenty of non-smart TVs, at least, and plenty of HN threads telling you where to look (they are sold as commercial displays and digital signage). You will really have to vote with your wallet, though, because the smart TVs come with hundreds of dollars of price discount based on bundling of streaming service clients and their ability to send consumer tracking data.

Nextgrid 4y ago
Not always - Sony Bravia conference room displays seem to be rebranded consumer models with clean firmware and the price is affordable. Maybe a small markup but nowhere near what you get on a digital signage display (and also it retains all the advantages of a consumer-grade TV such as speakers, remote, etc).
TheHappyOddish 4y ago
I spent months on this recently. Commercial displays are rarely available in retail quantities (e.g 1) in my country, and the few that are lack basics such as multiple HDMI ports, HDR, etc. The options may be greater for you, but they're limited for most of us.

taffer 4y ago

Sceptre[1] makes non-smart-TVs, Miele[2] washing machines are made to last 20 years. [1] https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV/U557CV-UMRB-55-4K-UHD-TV-product1428category1category73.html https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV/U557CV-UMRB-55-4K-UHD-T... [2] https://www.mieleusa.com/e/washing-machines-1015696-c https://www.mieleusa.com/e/washing-machines-1015696-c

TheHappyOddish 4y ago
Everything Sceptre sell appears to be "restock soon" or "out of stock" - is this a real company? Regardless, they don't appear to retail out of the US, so it's hardly a good option for most people.
mhuffman 4y ago
Sceptre certainly keeps that hidden! They need better marketers! For that price point and non-smart, I would have absolutely bought recently. But I have never heard of this brand until today.
- JeremyNT 4y ago
  I have a Sceptre. Let's just say you get what you pay for. If you're concerned about screen quality, you should probably look elsewhere. I do love how dumb it is, though!
pbronez 4y ago
Thanks for sharing! What’s your evidence for Miele’s durability? Is it just their “pro at home” line, or all of them?
- XajniN 4y ago
  Pretty much everything from Miele is built to last for decades. But it is expensive.
xupybd 4y ago
Fisher and Paykel also make washing machines that last. https://www.fisherpaykel.com/nz/laundry/washing-machines/ https://www.fisherpaykel.com/nz/laundry/washing-machines/

zelos 4y ago

> everything is named something like Sony XP-3000-ZXS Pro that is exactly like the XP-300ZXS Pro+ except… This drives me crazy. I don’t get how companies get this so wrong. I just spent hours looking for a tumble dryer and they’re all like that. Who are the people at these companies who think it’s a good idea to name your product a completely opaque alphanumeric jumble?

otikik 4y ago
Oh I know that one. It’s because they have slightly different models names for differ markets, and they figured out that using their internal code names was easier than paying someone to come up with easy, memorable names. So the model sold in Delaware is the UX-7200-D, and the one sold in The Netherlands is exactly the same item with a different power cord and instruction booklet. But it’s called NT-376xd because the Netherlands branch is actually a different company that was bought 2 years ago and they are still using their old system which has different codes for products.
- IIsi50MHz 4y ago
  I usually have the reverse problem: the "memorable" marketing names are vague and have no clear indication of what's newer or what's better. Sometimes each is trying to convince you it's the best[1], meanwhile the internal engineering designations (sometimes discoverable on or in the product) more commonly have a clear progression[2], despite alphanumeric soup (a 2300X -Q3N is likely older than a 2317X-1A, and both are inferior to a 2600X-PTN-J). Seems to me, Motorola's phone names in USA went off the deep end sometime after the Moto G7, while international versions of many of the same phones retained their nice simple sequential numbering scheme. [1] Don't get me started on people who produce n versions of something then decide to name the next version "One" (or similar) "because its the only One you need, the best One; it's The One!" (when they really mean, "Weird, people can't figure out why they should upgrade when we didn't change anything much!")…which of course just screws them when they next try to get people to upgrade. …Oh, seems I got very thoroughly started. :faceplant: [2] Ignoring Sharp models for their phones and tablets, which can have name elements where a descending sequence in part of the name and an ascending sequence in another part of the same name identify whether this is a higher or lower model. And ignoring Apple, which decades ago decided reusing model IDs over and over is FineTM, forcing horrible things like "Well, it's a late 2015 iBook 15-inch with the <special feature that means you have a different case/keboard/camera/…> and the <special upgrade that means you have a different motherboard>".

thangalin 4y ago

> How can I find a washing machine that will last for 20 years? Try: site:reddit.com inurl:BuyItForLife "washing machine" > Sure, how do I cast my vote for a non-smart TV Don't buy one. There are plenty of other options. Computer monitors, for example, can double for a display and TV. This one is excellent (had mine for about a year without any problems): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099PJ8SPT https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099PJ8SPT

agentdrtran 4y ago
reddit is chock-full of astroturfing and someone's washer brand lasting 20 years doesn't mean their modern model will last 20 years.

throwaway14356 4y ago

> How can I find a washing machine that will last for 20 years? I know this one! You buy one build in the 70's maybe 80's chose the ones with crazy rpm

themadturk 4y ago

Bought a smart tv, but don't use the smart parts. The invitation to use the smart features closes itself after about 15 seconds, no problem.

AussieWog93 4y ago

>How can I find a washing machine that will last for 20 years? In all seriousness, check second hand sites like Facebook Marketplace. The price of an item new in the shops often has low correlation with its quality, but second-hand markets are ridiculously frugal and rational. Even if you don't want to buy used goods, the fact that an item which cost $499 ten years ago still sells for $300 used is a real testament to the quality of the brand. Low quality crap will usually lose at least 50% of its value once you've opened the box, and another 50% yet again after just a couple of years' use.

sonofhans 4y ago
I do this exactly. My washer and dryer are both over 20 years old and cost less than $200 each, used and mechanically refurbished. They have a couple dials each and do their jobs predictably.
dachryn 4y ago
assuming the brand still has the same standards today as they had 10 years ago. In many many cases that is not the case. After 2008-2012 quality of appliances reeeallllly went downhill

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

musicale 4y ago

> Where do I go to watch my shows via DRM free downloads? Vote with your feet becomes a bit more interesting here since the legal options are limited.

pph 4y ago
I suppose you could say: Vote with your sails.