6 ms·

Genuinely curious to hear why you are so shocked. Long, ugly, user unfriendly urls are really prevalent. Arguments can be made even query params are pretty ugly

Genuinely curious to hear why you are so shocked. Long, ugly, user unfriendly urls are really prevalent. Arguments can be made even query params are pretty ugly.. Are urls expected to be a good UX these days? What's the big deal?

everforward 4y ago
> Are urls expected to be a good UX these days? What's the big deal? I think they are. If I want to go back to some page I was looking at earlier, it's really nice to be able to find that page in my history. That Yahoo URL is going to be hard to differentiate if you looked at a few stocks. It's also handy if the URL's are predictable enough that I can hit one directly rather than having to go through search. Good for me because I don't wait on page load, good for them because they don't have to serve my search request. It's pretty low on my list of UX annoyances, but it is there.
hunter2_ 4y ago
I don't think people care so much about a messy address bar as a messy chat/email message after pasting a URL. Shorteners and vanity URLs exist, but that's more friction than just copying from the address bar as-is. This can be overcome with html, markdown, and other rich text formats that let you specify the visible link text (missing from many chat apps*), but that's also friction to compose compared to automatically linking from just a URL. *Slack's implementation is awesome: type the link text, highlight it, and paste a URL.
- owl57 4y ago
  It's not even only about messiness. "https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34315441 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34315441" isn't some horrible long base64, but it's not a good UX either: when you paste it in a messenger, or in your notes, by default the reader can't tell what's it about without clicking. > *Slack's implementation is awesome: type the link text, highlight it, and paste a URL. Yes! Matches my vision of hypertext perfectly: I usually type a message in normal human language and then paste links all over it for the reader who needs to dig deeper.
  - TheBrokenRail 4y ago
    > by default the reader can't tell what's it about without clicking. Most chat apps like Discord will automatically include an embed generated from a URL's metadata when present in a message.
    - owl57 4y ago
      At least in Telegram, this works for at most one link per message, and quickly fills the screen if you send multiple such messages. And I believe that there is no standard API to get previews of non-public websites in a work chat, you need to develop site-specific bots or something like that?
      - hunter2_ 4y ago
        > previews of non-public websites It would be interesting if browsers / OSes / apps offered a way to use the browser's cookie jar / basic auth headers / whatever sessioning scheme in whatever apps the user decides should display authenticated previews. Ask the user to allow the release of browser data scoped to the domains that the app suggests. Similar to how some Android apps can put up a prompt to release a Chrome-saved password to an app (which I really wish more apps would include).
        withinboredom 4y ago
        I just include a screenshot. It’s not that hard.
        gdprrrr 4y ago
        Plesse no
        efreak 4y ago
        Examples of why this is bad: * http://example.com/settings/transferownership?to=efreak http://example.com/settings/transferownership?to=efreak * http://example.com/settings/deleteaccount?confirm=true http://example.com/settings/deleteaccount?confirm=true * http://example.com/sendmoney?to=efreak&amount=10000 http://example.com/sendmoney?to=efreak&amount=10000 Might need a redirect. Do previews follow redirects? Does your poorly-written chat app filter urls by protocol, or does it just look for a token with '://'? A good app will allow me to link to things like steam://connect/IP so I can invite you to a game. * tel:9005555555 (call a phone number. Fortunately, this requires confirmation these days, but what if you're on desktop or the app that does texting can directly make calls without invoking the dialer?) * steam://exitsteam (steam will exit if it's running)
- OJFord 4y ago
  > I don't think people care so much about a messy address bar as a messy chat/email message after pasting a URL. But it's painful how few care about that! I always clean them up before I send them (just manually - typically meaning all query parameters, e.g. with Amazon the text description after the actual ID) rarely even feel the need to check they still work, it's pretty easy, but maybe I shouldn't bother because it's only me that cares; they don't seem to notice that their links occupy half the screen and my don't!
munk-a 4y ago
Just because a thing is prevalent doesn't mean it's good. I have a hard time believing all those parameters are completely necessary for the amount of data being displayed. Often times it feels like people just base64encode(page.state) and call it a day. I think it's advantageous to keep the complexity and specificity of information in URLs to a minimum outside of what's needed to retrieve the data set as it can make backwards compatibility easier - it is valuable (for long lasting tools) to have URLs that users can favorite and share for their common searches.
- PUSH_AX 4y ago
  > Just because a thing is prevalent doesn't mean it's good. I agree with this sentiment. I'm not sure I've ever seen a url referred to as "good", I was just a bit confused as to why someone would baulk at a URL. In my opinion everything after the host portion of the url is to serve the apps needs, so it knows where to go or what to do, it's not really an interface for the user as obviously there are better ways to present that.
  - MereInterest 4y ago
    I’d say everything after the host is part of the UX, and should serve the user needs. For example: * Should be book-markable. * If searching with a query, should have a clear query parameter for ease of browser integration. * If the URL contains slash dividers that can be read as categories (e.g. storefront.com/department/category/product), then deleting everything after a given slash should go to that category’s page. * The link should be short enough to be sent over a plain-text conversation without becoming a wall of text. * The link should be short enough that it cannot hide a malicious subdomain (e.g. Google.com.flights.malicio.us/more/elements).
    - hinkley 4y ago
      * I should be able to guess if you're sending me a link about composting or a Rick Astley video Opaque slugs are problematic in a low-trust world. Phishing attempts are easier when the parameters are indecipherable. I'm not clicking on that shit in a text message or an email. I've seen what happens to people when they do.
pacifika 4y ago
Pipe that into bash (ie: the user doesn’t know if they’re loading malicious state)
anshumankmr 4y ago
I Just like to keep query params simple and readable. I understand the possible use case for this obfuscated url which would make it difficult to scrape the site

everforward 4y ago

> Are urls expected to be a good UX these days? What's the big deal? I think they are. If I want to go back to some page I was looking at earlier, it's really nice to be able to find that page in my history. That Yahoo URL is going to be hard to differentiate if you looked at a few stocks. It's also handy if the URL's are predictable enough that I can hit one directly rather than having to go through search. Good for me because I don't wait on page load, good for them because they don't have to serve my search request. It's pretty low on my list of UX annoyances, but it is there.

hunter2_ 4y ago

I don't think people care so much about a messy address bar as a messy chat/email message after pasting a URL. Shorteners and vanity URLs exist, but that's more friction than just copying from the address bar as-is. This can be overcome with html, markdown, and other rich text formats that let you specify the visible link text (missing from many chat apps*), but that's also friction to compose compared to automatically linking from just a URL. *Slack's implementation is awesome: type the link text, highlight it, and paste a URL.

owl57 4y ago
It's not even only about messiness. "https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34315441 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34315441" isn't some horrible long base64, but it's not a good UX either: when you paste it in a messenger, or in your notes, by default the reader can't tell what's it about without clicking. > *Slack's implementation is awesome: type the link text, highlight it, and paste a URL. Yes! Matches my vision of hypertext perfectly: I usually type a message in normal human language and then paste links all over it for the reader who needs to dig deeper.
- TheBrokenRail 4y ago
  > by default the reader can't tell what's it about without clicking. Most chat apps like Discord will automatically include an embed generated from a URL's metadata when present in a message.
  - owl57 4y ago
    At least in Telegram, this works for at most one link per message, and quickly fills the screen if you send multiple such messages. And I believe that there is no standard API to get previews of non-public websites in a work chat, you need to develop site-specific bots or something like that?
    - hunter2_ 4y ago
      > previews of non-public websites It would be interesting if browsers / OSes / apps offered a way to use the browser's cookie jar / basic auth headers / whatever sessioning scheme in whatever apps the user decides should display authenticated previews. Ask the user to allow the release of browser data scoped to the domains that the app suggests. Similar to how some Android apps can put up a prompt to release a Chrome-saved password to an app (which I really wish more apps would include).
      - withinboredom 4y ago
        I just include a screenshot. It’s not that hard.
      - gdprrrr 4y ago
        Plesse no
      - efreak 4y ago
        Examples of why this is bad: * http://example.com/settings/transferownership?to=efreak http://example.com/settings/transferownership?to=efreak * http://example.com/settings/deleteaccount?confirm=true http://example.com/settings/deleteaccount?confirm=true * http://example.com/sendmoney?to=efreak&amount=10000 http://example.com/sendmoney?to=efreak&amount=10000 Might need a redirect. Do previews follow redirects? Does your poorly-written chat app filter urls by protocol, or does it just look for a token with '://'? A good app will allow me to link to things like steam://connect/IP so I can invite you to a game. * tel:9005555555 (call a phone number. Fortunately, this requires confirmation these days, but what if you're on desktop or the app that does texting can directly make calls without invoking the dialer?) * steam://exitsteam (steam will exit if it's running)
OJFord 4y ago
> I don't think people care so much about a messy address bar as a messy chat/email message after pasting a URL. But it's painful how few care about that! I always clean them up before I send them (just manually - typically meaning all query parameters, e.g. with Amazon the text description after the actual ID) rarely even feel the need to check they still work, it's pretty easy, but maybe I shouldn't bother because it's only me that cares; they don't seem to notice that their links occupy half the screen and my don't!

munk-a 4y ago

Just because a thing is prevalent doesn't mean it's good. I have a hard time believing all those parameters are completely necessary for the amount of data being displayed. Often times it feels like people just base64encode(page.state) and call it a day. I think it's advantageous to keep the complexity and specificity of information in URLs to a minimum outside of what's needed to retrieve the data set as it can make backwards compatibility easier - it is valuable (for long lasting tools) to have URLs that users can favorite and share for their common searches.

PUSH_AX 4y ago
> Just because a thing is prevalent doesn't mean it's good. I agree with this sentiment. I'm not sure I've ever seen a url referred to as "good", I was just a bit confused as to why someone would baulk at a URL. In my opinion everything after the host portion of the url is to serve the apps needs, so it knows where to go or what to do, it's not really an interface for the user as obviously there are better ways to present that.
- MereInterest 4y ago
  I’d say everything after the host is part of the UX, and should serve the user needs. For example: * Should be book-markable. * If searching with a query, should have a clear query parameter for ease of browser integration. * If the URL contains slash dividers that can be read as categories (e.g. storefront.com/department/category/product), then deleting everything after a given slash should go to that category’s page. * The link should be short enough to be sent over a plain-text conversation without becoming a wall of text. * The link should be short enough that it cannot hide a malicious subdomain (e.g. Google.com.flights.malicio.us/more/elements).
  - hinkley 4y ago
    * I should be able to guess if you're sending me a link about composting or a Rick Astley video Opaque slugs are problematic in a low-trust world. Phishing attempts are easier when the parameters are indecipherable. I'm not clicking on that shit in a text message or an email. I've seen what happens to people when they do.

pacifika 4y ago

Pipe that into bash (ie: the user doesn’t know if they’re loading malicious state)

anshumankmr 4y ago

I Just like to keep query params simple and readable. I understand the possible use case for this obfuscated url which would make it difficult to scrape the site