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I'm currently remodeling my house and our contractor recommended adding a fire suppression system as part of the project. I always assumed that would be somethi

I'm currently remodeling my house and our contractor recommended adding a fire suppression system as part of the project. I always assumed that would be something I couldnt afford but the quote was pretty reasonable (~2500) I wonder if these kinds of systems, plus advances in other building materials have reduced the risk profile to the point where multiple egress points are no longer needed

dieselgate 4y ago
Just curious what the "fire suppression system" is in practice, is it sprinklers or specific fire retardant materials (drywall, shingles etc) used. Also wondering what geo location you are in (in consideration of regional fire risks and codes). Edit: would assume single/multiple egress points are tied to the human capacity limit for the building but am not an arch/civil engineer
xenadu02 4y ago
Any amount of water you can get onto a fire increases survivability (both in time and number of locations). NFPA 13R is a relatively recent addition to fire code that focuses on making low-rise residential fire sprinklers much cheaper to install and that shows in the price quote you got. 13R allows use of existing plumbing connections. It doesn't require a separate feed from the water main, nor does it require a separate iron pipe network inside the structure. It also doesn't require extensive equipment like some commercial systems do (eg sensing when one sprinkler goes off and using high-pressure to force the whole zone of sprinklers to go off). > advances in other building materials Definitely not. You'd think we would require a quick spray-down of boric acid on wood stick construction right after framing. Boric acid (or borax) is an insect repellant, smolder suppressor, and fire retardant when used this way. It would - at minimum - slow the spread of structure fires. It is also dirt cheap. But nope... buildings themselves are just as flammable today as they were 50 years ago. Survivability is worse thanks to so much synthetic fabric and foam giving off really toxic fumes and more or less no requirement to make anything flame resistant. --- If you want to increase survivability in your own home: 1. If you can afford it have sprinklers installed. In most US states the cost is a lot less than you might think, well under $10k. Usually under $5k. Insurance can't replace lives nor keepsakes. Nor can it repair bodily injury. If you worry about water damage I can promise you repairing it is far cheaper than repairing smoke/fire damage. 2. Have working smoke detectors. Get 10-year sealed lithium ones. The day you install them set a reminder in you phone for 10 years from now to replace them. Install them in the recommended locations. 3. Sleep with your door closed. If you need air, crack a window. If your room doesn't circulate enough from a forced air system shave a bit off the bottom of the door. Experiments show even a cheap cardboard core door can provide 30 minutes of protection from a raging house fire. It blocks most of the smoke. It also greatly slows down heat transfer which reduces flashover risk. I'm not joking - you can find videos on the web where the hallway is a charred black hellscape but the bedding/carpet in a bedroom behind a closed door isn't even slightly blackened.
- chromatin 4y ago
  Thanks for these reminders! #3 is especially important.
- mindslight 4y ago
  Would you care to elaborate any more details on the boric acid thing? The way you've put it, it sounds negligent to not do it to any exposed framing. Got any examples of commercial products? Or suggested concentration for full DIY with off the shelf Borax?
  - xenadu02 4y ago
    Timbor is one used for insect repellant. Boralife sells pre-treated lumber and your local lumber yard can probably supply you with other brands. IIRC for fire retardant a 7:3 mix of boric acid and borax dissolved in distilled water (at 80C to speed up dissolution) can be used. Borax reduces flame spread but can cause smoldering while boric acid suppresses smoldering. AFAIK any concentration high enough for flame suppression is plenty to deter insects and prevent fungi/rot. I can't find anyone selling this as a packaged solution with instructions so I'd suggest doing your own tests before trusting a random HN comment. This is all from memory so don't take my word for it.

dieselgate 4y ago

Just curious what the "fire suppression system" is in practice, is it sprinklers or specific fire retardant materials (drywall, shingles etc) used. Also wondering what geo location you are in (in consideration of regional fire risks and codes). Edit: would assume single/multiple egress points are tied to the human capacity limit for the building but am not an arch/civil engineer

xenadu02 4y ago

Any amount of water you can get onto a fire increases survivability (both in time and number of locations). NFPA 13R is a relatively recent addition to fire code that focuses on making low-rise residential fire sprinklers much cheaper to install and that shows in the price quote you got. 13R allows use of existing plumbing connections. It doesn't require a separate feed from the water main, nor does it require a separate iron pipe network inside the structure. It also doesn't require extensive equipment like some commercial systems do (eg sensing when one sprinkler goes off and using high-pressure to force the whole zone of sprinklers to go off). > advances in other building materials Definitely not. You'd think we would require a quick spray-down of boric acid on wood stick construction right after framing. Boric acid (or borax) is an insect repellant, smolder suppressor, and fire retardant when used this way. It would - at minimum - slow the spread of structure fires. It is also dirt cheap. But nope... buildings themselves are just as flammable today as they were 50 years ago. Survivability is worse thanks to so much synthetic fabric and foam giving off really toxic fumes and more or less no requirement to make anything flame resistant. --- If you want to increase survivability in your own home: 1. If you can afford it have sprinklers installed. In most US states the cost is a lot less than you might think, well under $10k. Usually under $5k. Insurance can't replace lives nor keepsakes. Nor can it repair bodily injury. If you worry about water damage I can promise you repairing it is far cheaper than repairing smoke/fire damage. 2. Have working smoke detectors. Get 10-year sealed lithium ones. The day you install them set a reminder in you phone for 10 years from now to replace them. Install them in the recommended locations. 3. Sleep with your door closed. If you need air, crack a window. If your room doesn't circulate enough from a forced air system shave a bit off the bottom of the door. Experiments show even a cheap cardboard core door can provide 30 minutes of protection from a raging house fire. It blocks most of the smoke. It also greatly slows down heat transfer which reduces flashover risk. I'm not joking - you can find videos on the web where the hallway is a charred black hellscape but the bedding/carpet in a bedroom behind a closed door isn't even slightly blackened.

chromatin 4y ago
Thanks for these reminders! #3 is especially important.
mindslight 4y ago
Would you care to elaborate any more details on the boric acid thing? The way you've put it, it sounds negligent to not do it to any exposed framing. Got any examples of commercial products? Or suggested concentration for full DIY with off the shelf Borax?
- xenadu02 4y ago
  Timbor is one used for insect repellant. Boralife sells pre-treated lumber and your local lumber yard can probably supply you with other brands. IIRC for fire retardant a 7:3 mix of boric acid and borax dissolved in distilled water (at 80C to speed up dissolution) can be used. Borax reduces flame spread but can cause smoldering while boric acid suppresses smoldering. AFAIK any concentration high enough for flame suppression is plenty to deter insects and prevent fungi/rot. I can't find anyone selling this as a packaged solution with instructions so I'd suggest doing your own tests before trusting a random HN comment. This is all from memory so don't take my word for it.