4 ms·

In the spirit of curiosity - how would you go about measuring that? A counterfactual is almost impossible. That being said - when in doubt, I favor more regula

by voz_ 4y ago

In the spirit of curiosity - how would you go about measuring that? A counterfactual is almost impossible. That being said - when in doubt, I favor more regulation for safety, not less.

jeffbee 4y ago
You could measure it by people who perish in structure fires, a metric on which America is far behind Europe.
- rwmj 4y ago
  You'd need to weigh that against the costs and lost opportunities. If no one can buy an affordable apartment and overengineering is part of the cause, or if many die because of a car-centric culture because you can't built densely enough, that can be a problem.
  - frickinLasers 4y ago
    I'd wager most of the US deaths occur in single-family homes--in basements (illegally housed), or even while sleeping in rooms with plenty of opportunity for egress.
- harywilke 4y ago
  This got me curious. Best i could find was the CTIF (The International Association of Fire and Rescue Services) [1] and their annual report [2]. Table 1.2 shows a breakdown of fire deaths per 100 fires. US 0.3 France, Germany 0.1 Greece, UK, Belgium 0.2 Poland, Denmark, Slovakia 0.4 So it's a bit of a mixed bag. The reported average was 0.5 (report didn't cover every country). Sadly Canada wasn't in the table. Japan at 3.8 was a bit of a surprise. 1. https://ctif.org/world-fire-statistics https://ctif.org/world-fire-statistics 2. https://ctif.org/sites/default/files/2022-08/CTIF_Report27_ESG_0.pdf https://ctif.org/sites/default/files/2022-08/CTIF_Report27_E...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> how would you go about measuring that? Death and injury frequencies. Anecdotes of preventable deaths, e.g. where one stairwell was not enough versus where a corridor separating two stairwells became, itself, an obstacle. Drill simulations. We should have have some basis for the rule. (If we don't, I'd support scrapping it.)

by voz_ 4y ago

In the spirit of curiosity - how would you go about measuring that? A counterfactual is almost impossible. That being said - when in doubt, I favor more regulation for safety, not less.

jeffbee 4y ago

You could measure it by people who perish in structure fires, a metric on which America is far behind Europe.

rwmj 4y ago
You'd need to weigh that against the costs and lost opportunities. If no one can buy an affordable apartment and overengineering is part of the cause, or if many die because of a car-centric culture because you can't built densely enough, that can be a problem.
- frickinLasers 4y ago
  I'd wager most of the US deaths occur in single-family homes--in basements (illegally housed), or even while sleeping in rooms with plenty of opportunity for egress.
harywilke 4y ago
This got me curious. Best i could find was the CTIF (The International Association of Fire and Rescue Services) [1] and their annual report [2]. Table 1.2 shows a breakdown of fire deaths per 100 fires. US 0.3 France, Germany 0.1 Greece, UK, Belgium 0.2 Poland, Denmark, Slovakia 0.4 So it's a bit of a mixed bag. The reported average was 0.5 (report didn't cover every country). Sadly Canada wasn't in the table. Japan at 3.8 was a bit of a surprise. 1. https://ctif.org/world-fire-statistics https://ctif.org/world-fire-statistics 2. https://ctif.org/sites/default/files/2022-08/CTIF_Report27_ESG_0.pdf https://ctif.org/sites/default/files/2022-08/CTIF_Report27_E...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> how would you go about measuring that? Death and injury frequencies. Anecdotes of preventable deaths, e.g. where one stairwell was not enough versus where a corridor separating two stairwells became, itself, an obstacle. Drill simulations. We should have have some basis for the rule. (If we don't, I'd support scrapping it.)