4 ms·

Fire codes aren't the reason that you can't build in most of North America. NIMBYism, and the cultural obsession with low-density, single-family homes only mad

by vkou 4y ago

Fire codes aren't the reason that you can't build in most of North America. NIMBYism, and the cultural obsession with low-density, single-family homes only made possible by car-centric transportation infrastructure is. Which is also in no small part caused by a financial and tenant rights system that pushes people towards home ownership, instead of renting.

astrange 4y ago
Part of the car-centric infrastructure is fire codes. American towns have lots of fire departments which all refuse to buy smaller European-style fire trucks, and all roads have to be built to fit what they buy. European buildings are also less likely to be made out of wood, which is good if you care about fire safety that much.
- vkou 4y ago
  > Part of the car-centric infrastructure is fire codes. No, it's not. Cheap gas[0], giant freaking interstates, and public transit systems (when they are even present) that are very clearly built for the 'poors' are. Another 3% to the per-square-foot-cost of building a multi-tenant building aren't the reason that Houston has 12 and 16-lane highways cutting right through the city, or why it takes an hour to travel by bus in Stockton a distance that you could travel in 10 minutes by car. Fitting fire trucks is a problem for local, last-mile streets[1], not arterials, and availability of arterials (and lack of availability of alternatives) are what plays a large part in how people get around. [0] Under $3.20/gallon in most of the country, compared to over $7/gallon in most of Europe. Not to mention the double-whammy of generally lower[2] European wages. [1] Most American suburbs solve the width-of-last-mile-street problem by simply... Not having sidewalks. It's not like there's anywhere you can walk to from them... [2] Okay, okay, yes, Western European take-home incomes for low-paying jobs tend to be higher than their American counterparts.
  - astrange 4y ago
    I mean I didn't say it was all of it, it's just another small part of it. Those are more important factors, yes, but minor issues by land area are more important if they especially affect urban areas. Parking minimums and setbacks are like that too. > and public transit systems (when they are even present) that are very clearly built for the 'poors' This one's funny because it's true, but the way you write it makes it sound disparaging - whereas if you said they were designed for "equity" then everyone would agree that's what it's for and that it's good. Another way to say it is, American transit planners will happily make a project worse and take longer to build, as long as it reaches poorer communities first.
  - stuaxo 4y ago
    That last bit about not having anywhere to walk to is a bit of a chicken + egg problem; if you can't walk, then nobody is going to make things to walk to.
    - vkou 4y ago
      They are all chicken-and-egg problems that suck us into the morass of a local maximum. Transit sucks, because people with political pull don't use or prioritize it, so people with political pull don't use it. Gas is cheap so people drive everywhere, so people lobby to keep gas cheap. There's no way to break out of this feedback loop.

by vkou 4y ago

astrange 4y ago

Part of the car-centric infrastructure is fire codes. American towns have lots of fire departments which all refuse to buy smaller European-style fire trucks, and all roads have to be built to fit what they buy. European buildings are also less likely to be made out of wood, which is good if you care about fire safety that much.

vkou 4y ago
> Part of the car-centric infrastructure is fire codes. No, it's not. Cheap gas[0], giant freaking interstates, and public transit systems (when they are even present) that are very clearly built for the 'poors' are. Another 3% to the per-square-foot-cost of building a multi-tenant building aren't the reason that Houston has 12 and 16-lane highways cutting right through the city, or why it takes an hour to travel by bus in Stockton a distance that you could travel in 10 minutes by car. Fitting fire trucks is a problem for local, last-mile streets[1], not arterials, and availability of arterials (and lack of availability of alternatives) are what plays a large part in how people get around. [0] Under $3.20/gallon in most of the country, compared to over $7/gallon in most of Europe. Not to mention the double-whammy of generally lower[2] European wages. [1] Most American suburbs solve the width-of-last-mile-street problem by simply... Not having sidewalks. It's not like there's anywhere you can walk to from them... [2] Okay, okay, yes, Western European take-home incomes for low-paying jobs tend to be higher than their American counterparts.
- astrange 4y ago
  I mean I didn't say it was all of it, it's just another small part of it. Those are more important factors, yes, but minor issues by land area are more important if they especially affect urban areas. Parking minimums and setbacks are like that too. > and public transit systems (when they are even present) that are very clearly built for the 'poors' This one's funny because it's true, but the way you write it makes it sound disparaging - whereas if you said they were designed for "equity" then everyone would agree that's what it's for and that it's good. Another way to say it is, American transit planners will happily make a project worse and take longer to build, as long as it reaches poorer communities first.
- stuaxo 4y ago
  That last bit about not having anywhere to walk to is a bit of a chicken + egg problem; if you can't walk, then nobody is going to make things to walk to.
  - vkou 4y ago
    They are all chicken-and-egg problems that suck us into the morass of a local maximum. Transit sucks, because people with political pull don't use or prioritize it, so people with political pull don't use it. Gas is cheap so people drive everywhere, so people lobby to keep gas cheap. There's no way to break out of this feedback loop.