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Except what this site says is that counter-intuitively, this policy doesn't save lives, it's actually the opposite: "Zeidler explains that “this appears to be

Except what this site says is that counter-intuitively, this policy doesn't save lives, it's actually the opposite: "Zeidler explains that “this appears to be a reasonable precaution for life safety. However, the life safety of this single stair type in Europe has been equal to, if not better than ours,” due to the fact that the single stair scheme is shared between fewer units." And that's the thing, entire countries disagree on the necessity of a second stairwell for fire safety, and there's data to back up the position. But because a lot of people in North America have those (unfounded) fears, the second stairwell is part of the building code, and as a result an entire class of buildings don't get built because the economics don't work out.

WWLink 4y ago
I'm siting here pondering how adding a second stairway to a building makes it economically unfeasible. What kinda crappy buildings are you making where the stairway is that substantial to the cost of the construction? And in low rise buildings, there's usually a LOT of stairways lol. A typic suburban US apartment complex has a half dozen buildings, and each one has maybe 12 apartments and like 4 stairways.
- astrange 4y ago
  Adding a second stairway typically requires rearranging the building to be double-loaded (having a central hallway with apartments exclusively on either side), which wastes much more space, only allows windows on one side of the apartment, feels like you live in a hotel etc. https://www.treehugger.com/single-stair-buildings-united-states-5197036 https://www.treehugger.com/single-stair-buildings-united-sta...
  - frickinLasers 4y ago
    What's wrong with fire escapes? I see plenty of space to add those to a point access block.
twblalock 4y ago
> But because a lot of people in North America have those (unfounded) fears, the second stairwell is part of the building code, and as a result an entire class of buildings don't get built because the economics don't work out. I don't believe the fears are unfounded, and frankly I don't see why anyone should buy what this Zeidler guy is selling -- if what he is saying is true, all it means is that European buildings should also be changed to have multiple egress options for every unit! Seriously, would you be willing to live on the 6th floor of a building where the only way out in a fire is a single staircase? Don't look at statistics to decide this: even if you would be safe most of the time, it only takes one outlier incident to kill you, so why put yourself in that situation?
- Thorrez 4y ago
  >Seriously, would you be willing to live on the 6th floor of a building where the only way out in a fire is a single staircase? I think the argument is: adding a second staircase means creating a large hallway, which might make it easier for the fire to spread. I don't see why we shouldn't look at statistics. If something is statistically safer, wouldn't we want that?

WWLink 4y ago

I'm siting here pondering how adding a second stairway to a building makes it economically unfeasible. What kinda crappy buildings are you making where the stairway is that substantial to the cost of the construction? And in low rise buildings, there's usually a LOT of stairways lol. A typic suburban US apartment complex has a half dozen buildings, and each one has maybe 12 apartments and like 4 stairways.

astrange 4y ago
Adding a second stairway typically requires rearranging the building to be double-loaded (having a central hallway with apartments exclusively on either side), which wastes much more space, only allows windows on one side of the apartment, feels like you live in a hotel etc. https://www.treehugger.com/single-stair-buildings-united-states-5197036 https://www.treehugger.com/single-stair-buildings-united-sta...
- frickinLasers 4y ago
  What's wrong with fire escapes? I see plenty of space to add those to a point access block.

twblalock 4y ago

> But because a lot of people in North America have those (unfounded) fears, the second stairwell is part of the building code, and as a result an entire class of buildings don't get built because the economics don't work out. I don't believe the fears are unfounded, and frankly I don't see why anyone should buy what this Zeidler guy is selling -- if what he is saying is true, all it means is that European buildings should also be changed to have multiple egress options for every unit! Seriously, would you be willing to live on the 6th floor of a building where the only way out in a fire is a single staircase? Don't look at statistics to decide this: even if you would be safe most of the time, it only takes one outlier incident to kill you, so why put yourself in that situation?

Thorrez 4y ago
>Seriously, would you be willing to live on the 6th floor of a building where the only way out in a fire is a single staircase? I think the argument is: adding a second staircase means creating a large hallway, which might make it easier for the fire to spread. I don't see why we shouldn't look at statistics. If something is statistically safer, wouldn't we want that?