3 ms·

Sounds like McGee might not have got his fair share of Id's success. Maybe Carmack felt bad about that.

by pyb 4y ago

savanaly 4y ago
Why would McGee be the one paying Carmack back after all these years if that were the case? Can you imagine Walter White paying back Elliot for some long forgotten debt out of his drug money?
- pyb 4y ago
  Because it was a loan ?
  - savanaly 4y ago
    Your comment makes sense in the context of my comment, but not in the overall context of the thread.
    - bena 4y ago
      You can feel both slighted by and indebted to the same individual. Regardless of whether or not McGee feels like he deserved to have been better compensated by id software for his contributions, he feels personally indebted to John Carmack for the money he borrowed. And in the case of feeling slighted, while he could justify never paying Carmack back by saying that since Carmack was one of the founder/owners of the company that slighted him, this was just money Carmack owed him, he has not taken that tack. It is possible to compartmentalize.
      - pyb 4y ago
        That's the correct take, thanks.
znpy 4y ago
This is often not understood of successful ventures. There’s usually a fairly small circle of close people that get the biggest share of the financial pie, and others don’t get very much. I’ve seen a few situations where some friends ended up earning a regular salary at startups when the closed circle made millions. So yeah you can brag about working at $trendy_company but that doesn’t financially translate into anything special.
- pyb 4y ago
  Definitely. We still have this unfair situation today, where "founders" get most of the upside, and "founding engineers" hired immediately after get ~1% or less.
bena 4y ago
Eh. He was a junior designer when he was fired. And if Carmack felt bad about how McGee was being treated at the company Carmack owned, he could have done a lot more about that.
- bluedino 4y ago
  3/12/98 ------- American McGee has been let go from Id. His past contributions include work in three of the all time great games (DOOM 2, Quake, Quake 2), but we were not seeing what we wanted.
  - bena 4y ago
    Yes. Many people, including McGee, worked on those games. And it is totally possible that his work wasn't sufficient to remain employed. It's possible he produced too slowly or not enough or his work needed help, etc. Are those games still "all time great games" without McGee's contributions? Very likely. Without Carmack and Romero, that's a different story. And even though Romero had no input on Quake 2, it's built off of Quake, so it carries a lot of that with it. And the whole question is complex. These games sold well. McGee did work for these games as an employee. Does he deserve a percentage of sales? If so, how much, etc? Or is it much the case with the people who worked on Microsoft Word. It was a job and they did their part and were paid for that part. I don't see anyone trying to get the Office team a percentage of Office sales, even though that would make some people fantastically wealthy.
AdmiralAsshat 4y ago
He had Alice and...that was about it. Pretty much everything else he slapped his name on was a flop. Then he did the sequel to Alice and it got lukewarm reception.
happyopossum 4y ago
> his fair share of Id's success That's a pretty prejudicial way to put it - he was a junior dev who got fired, how much of "Id's success" do you think he was entitled to?

Sounds like McGee might not have got his fair share of Id's success. Maybe Carmack felt bad about that.

by pyb 4y ago

Sounds like McGee might not have got his fair share of Id's success. Maybe Carmack felt bad about that.

Why would McGee be the one paying Carmack back after all these years if that were the case? Can you imagine Walter White paying back Elliot for some long forgotten debt out of his drug money?

pyb 4y ago
Because it was a loan ?
- savanaly 4y ago
  Your comment makes sense in the context of my comment, but not in the overall context of the thread.
  - bena 4y ago
    You can feel both slighted by and indebted to the same individual. Regardless of whether or not McGee feels like he deserved to have been better compensated by id software for his contributions, he feels personally indebted to John Carmack for the money he borrowed. And in the case of feeling slighted, while he could justify never paying Carmack back by saying that since Carmack was one of the founder/owners of the company that slighted him, this was just money Carmack owed him, he has not taken that tack. It is possible to compartmentalize.
    - pyb 4y ago
      That's the correct take, thanks.

znpy 4y ago

This is often not understood of successful ventures. There’s usually a fairly small circle of close people that get the biggest share of the financial pie, and others don’t get very much. I’ve seen a few situations where some friends ended up earning a regular salary at startups when the closed circle made millions. So yeah you can brag about working at $trendy_company but that doesn’t financially translate into anything special.

pyb 4y ago
Definitely. We still have this unfair situation today, where "founders" get most of the upside, and "founding engineers" hired immediately after get ~1% or less.

bena 4y ago

Eh. He was a junior designer when he was fired. And if Carmack felt bad about how McGee was being treated at the company Carmack owned, he could have done a lot more about that.

bluedino 4y ago
3/12/98 ------- American McGee has been let go from Id. His past contributions include work in three of the all time great games (DOOM 2, Quake, Quake 2), but we were not seeing what we wanted.
- bena 4y ago
  Yes. Many people, including McGee, worked on those games. And it is totally possible that his work wasn't sufficient to remain employed. It's possible he produced too slowly or not enough or his work needed help, etc. Are those games still "all time great games" without McGee's contributions? Very likely. Without Carmack and Romero, that's a different story. And even though Romero had no input on Quake 2, it's built off of Quake, so it carries a lot of that with it. And the whole question is complex. These games sold well. McGee did work for these games as an employee. Does he deserve a percentage of sales? If so, how much, etc? Or is it much the case with the people who worked on Microsoft Word. It was a job and they did their part and were paid for that part. I don't see anyone trying to get the Office team a percentage of Office sales, even though that would make some people fantastically wealthy.

AdmiralAsshat 4y ago

He had Alice and...that was about it. Pretty much everything else he slapped his name on was a flop. Then he did the sequel to Alice and it got lukewarm reception.

happyopossum 4y ago

> his fair share of Id's success That's a pretty prejudicial way to put it - he was a junior dev who got fired, how much of "Id's success" do you think he was entitled to?