4 ms·

I always felt uncomfortable with Indy's relationship with Marion Ravenwood. According to the dialogue he was 25 and she was 14 or 15 when they had their relatio

I always felt uncomfortable with Indy's relationship with Marion Ravenwood. According to the dialogue he was 25 and she was 14 or 15 when they had their relationship. That just strikes me as wrong and creepy and unsure how Spielberg/Lucas thought that was appropriate.

DaveExeter 4y ago
It was a different era. A more civilized era.
pantalaimon 4y ago
16 according to https://indianajones.fandom.com/wiki/Marion_Ravenwood https://indianajones.fandom.com/wiki/Marion_Ravenwood
- donohoe 4y ago
  Looks like 15 is the intended age https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34318095 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34318095
nautilius 4y ago
I’m in the same camp. I love that movie but can’t bring myself to show it to my kids yet with that relationship, the rapey behavior of Jones forcing to get his kisses, and the casual killing.
mellosouls 4y ago
Wow, I had no idea about that, though Wikipedia seems to say that was Karen Allen's own idea for a backstory. I don't remember it from the film though apparently it is in the novelisation which I've never read.
- donohoe 4y ago
  No, did not appear to be her idea https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34318095 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34318095
tablespoon 4y ago
> According to the dialogue he was 25 and she was 14 or 15 when they had their relationship. Exactly what dialog? Because (based on my recollection) if there was any dialog that implied that, it was ambiguous or must be the kind of thing you'd have to be paying pretty careful attention to to pick up on. So close attention that you're probably ignoring the actual plot of the movie.
- fknorangesite 4y ago
  > Exactly what dialog? M: I learned to hate you in the last ten years. I: I never meant to hurt you. M: I was a child! I was in love! It was wrong and you knew it! I: You knew what you were doing. M: Now I do! This is my place. Get out! I: I did what I did. You don't have to be happy about it, but maybe we could help each other out now. https://youtu.be/Q4PlXSw0BQo?t=118 https://youtu.be/Q4PlXSw0BQo?t=118 It's ambiguous (since we don't know for sure how old Marion is during the events of Raiders), but "Marion was 16(ish)" is a perfectly valid reading.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > It's ambiguous (since we don't know for sure how old Marion is during the events of Raiders), but "Marion was 16(ish)" is a perfectly valid reading Yeah, which is kind of my point. That may be a valid reading of the dialog, but so is 18, 20, or even 25. 16 may be in the movie's "writer's bible," but (IMHO) the viewer has to do too much work during that 10 seconds or so to get there. A regular viewer isn't paying much if any attention to the character's ages, and pretty much all of them will assume something legit.
    - rickoooooo 4y ago
      You can find a transcript from George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, and Larry Kasdan's original brainstorming sessions for this film online (http://maddogmovies.com/almost/scripts/raidersstoryconference1978.pdf http://maddogmovies.com/almost/scripts/raidersstoryconferenc...). In the transcript it's made clear that she would have been underage, but in the film it's only hinted at. Here's an excerpt: G — I was thinking that this old guy could have been his mentor. He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. Had an affair with her when she was eleven. L — And he was forty-two. G — He hasn't seen her in twelve years. Now she's twenty-two. It's a real strange relationship. S — She had better be older than twenty-two. G — He's thirty-five, and he knew her ten years ago when he was twenty-five and she was only twelve. G — It would be amusing to make her slightly young at the time. S — And promiscuous. She came onto him. G — Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it's an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she's sixteen or seventeen it's not interesting anymore. But if she was fifteen and he was twenty-five and they actually had an affair the last time they met. And she was madly in love with him and he...
Fricken 4y ago
I wonder I've never heard anyone say anything about "Big", directed by Penny Marshall and released in 1987. The main narrative thread in that film is unambiguously about a corporate executive who grooms and repeatedly rapes a pre-adolescent boy. It was hit with audiences and critics alike.
- donohoe 4y ago
  You're not wrong.

DaveExeter 4y ago

It was a different era. A more civilized era.

pantalaimon 4y ago

16 according to https://indianajones.fandom.com/wiki/Marion_Ravenwood https://indianajones.fandom.com/wiki/Marion_Ravenwood

donohoe 4y ago
Looks like 15 is the intended age https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34318095 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34318095

nautilius 4y ago

I’m in the same camp. I love that movie but can’t bring myself to show it to my kids yet with that relationship, the rapey behavior of Jones forcing to get his kisses, and the casual killing.

mellosouls 4y ago

Wow, I had no idea about that, though Wikipedia seems to say that was Karen Allen's own idea for a backstory. I don't remember it from the film though apparently it is in the novelisation which I've never read.

donohoe 4y ago
No, did not appear to be her idea https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34318095 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34318095

tablespoon 4y ago

> According to the dialogue he was 25 and she was 14 or 15 when they had their relationship. Exactly what dialog? Because (based on my recollection) if there was any dialog that implied that, it was ambiguous or must be the kind of thing you'd have to be paying pretty careful attention to to pick up on. So close attention that you're probably ignoring the actual plot of the movie.

fknorangesite 4y ago
> Exactly what dialog? M: I learned to hate you in the last ten years. I: I never meant to hurt you. M: I was a child! I was in love! It was wrong and you knew it! I: You knew what you were doing. M: Now I do! This is my place. Get out! I: I did what I did. You don't have to be happy about it, but maybe we could help each other out now. https://youtu.be/Q4PlXSw0BQo?t=118 https://youtu.be/Q4PlXSw0BQo?t=118 It's ambiguous (since we don't know for sure how old Marion is during the events of Raiders), but "Marion was 16(ish)" is a perfectly valid reading.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > It's ambiguous (since we don't know for sure how old Marion is during the events of Raiders), but "Marion was 16(ish)" is a perfectly valid reading Yeah, which is kind of my point. That may be a valid reading of the dialog, but so is 18, 20, or even 25. 16 may be in the movie's "writer's bible," but (IMHO) the viewer has to do too much work during that 10 seconds or so to get there. A regular viewer isn't paying much if any attention to the character's ages, and pretty much all of them will assume something legit.
  - rickoooooo 4y ago
    You can find a transcript from George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, and Larry Kasdan's original brainstorming sessions for this film online (http://maddogmovies.com/almost/scripts/raidersstoryconference1978.pdf http://maddogmovies.com/almost/scripts/raidersstoryconferenc...). In the transcript it's made clear that she would have been underage, but in the film it's only hinted at. Here's an excerpt: G — I was thinking that this old guy could have been his mentor. He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. Had an affair with her when she was eleven. L — And he was forty-two. G — He hasn't seen her in twelve years. Now she's twenty-two. It's a real strange relationship. S — She had better be older than twenty-two. G — He's thirty-five, and he knew her ten years ago when he was twenty-five and she was only twelve. G — It would be amusing to make her slightly young at the time. S — And promiscuous. She came onto him. G — Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it's an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she's sixteen or seventeen it's not interesting anymore. But if she was fifteen and he was twenty-five and they actually had an affair the last time they met. And she was madly in love with him and he...

Fricken 4y ago

I wonder I've never heard anyone say anything about "Big", directed by Penny Marshall and released in 1987. The main narrative thread in that film is unambiguously about a corporate executive who grooms and repeatedly rapes a pre-adolescent boy. It was hit with audiences and critics alike.

donohoe 4y ago
You're not wrong.