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> and the staff engineer track. It sounds like you simply want to do the latter - so no, there is nothing wrong or unusual with what you are wanting. I could b

> and the staff engineer track. It sounds like you simply want to do the latter - so no, there is nothing wrong or unusual with what you are wanting. I could be wrong but it sounds like the OP doesn't even want to be a staff engineer (if my understanding of staff engineer is correct). https://davidxiang.com/2021/01/19/staff-software-engineer-responsibilities/ https://davidxiang.com/2021/01/19/staff-software-engineer-re... I'm pretty sure you're still expected to guide other engineers (co-workers/teammates), speak almost as a buffer with management, etc. If you want to be heads down coding and not dealing with people, I don't think staff engineer is the right track?

bpicolo 4y ago
Staff engineers are not a monolith. Software engineering is a huge discipline. There are staff engineers out there that do more architect/solver types of work. https://staffeng.com/guides/staff-archetypes https://staffeng.com/guides/staff-archetypes In any case, leadership skills tend to go with the territory.
- MuffinFlavored 4y ago
  > Staff engineers are not a monolith. In my experience, all it takes is your organization to go through one "re-structure", you randomly get a new manager one day, and they have a different expectation on what staff engineer means/should do. Next thing you know, you're being expected to stop architecting so much, spend more time mentoring interns who have never coded before and got hired randomly because ______. I wouldn't roll the dice that your job description/definition/expectations stay the same team to team, manager to manager, org to org, etc. I'd avoid "dancing" for the extra raise or whatever comes with being a staff engineer versus a regular senior engineer if you don't like dealing with people/having a lot expected out of you from a communication, presentation, human interaction standpoint.
  - monsieurbanana 4y ago
    I recently went through a "re-structure", and the result was a massive layoff, including Staff-level engineers. So I don't find that as a particularly compelling argument, your job description is never safe anyways.
  - anyfoo 4y ago
    That's not my experience. Granted, I've only relatively recently reached staff level, but I've been working with other staff engineers (and higher) for a rather long time, including through some re-structuring. Their role seems to have stayed similar, and they still "architect". But more generally, I think what you describe can always happen, whether you have the "staff" label attached or not. Especially when you get a new manager or management chain, they can always have a different idea of what you should be doing. If anything, I feel that as a staff level engineer I'd have more pull in resisting those changes (if unwanted) than otherwise.
gedy 4y ago
Yeah I don't know when Staff SE became pitched as this lofty leadership position like this, but first half of my career in multiple companies this was basically just next step up in IC positions after Senior SE, not leadership. Principal then after that.
- MuffinFlavored 4y ago
  When does IC (individual contributor) go from "how efficient/effective can you make the other ICs on the team?" I've seen ICs who say "my purpose isn't to code, it's to increase the efficiency of the other ICs on the team who do code, which makes me a 10x engineer, despite not coding, because I increase each team member's individual productivity which is collectively more than I could output individually myself"
  - gedy 4y ago
    Companies I've been in would call that out as technical leadership track, typically architect and above, but sometimes principal.
wstuartcl 4y ago
It really varies from role to role -- staff engineers/principals/whatever nomenclature used can be just another manager/director or a pure dev with light mentorship/heavy resource for helping with hard dev problems and designs and anywhere in-between. Also regarding nomenclature of the titles -- its all over the place in the wild some places call jr's "staff software engineer" sometimes its seniors or principals.
candybar 4y ago
I think you're understating your point. Most of what the OP mentions are generally expected of senior engineers or even mid-level engineers, though circumstances may vary. > I don't like having to check on others to ensure they're working as they should. This is impossible to avoid in most professional settings outside of entry-level. > I don't like hiring people and doing interviews. Interviewing is often a core expectation for engineers. > I don't like having to worry about "capacity" when getting a new project. Senior engineers almost certainly have to worry about whether there's capacity to take on a new project. > I don't like doing performance reviews and making sure that people's "efficiency" is as high as. This can mostly be avoided for ICs, until you get to a fairly high level (i.e. staff). > I don't like having to supervise every proposal going out to make sure our marketing department didn't promise some technical heresy. Standard senior engineering expectation. > I don't like giving people "shitty" tasks to do (because there will always be some). Prioritizing and assigning tasks are generally expected of senior or even mid-level engineers. > I don't like sitting with someone for a couple hours to explains how I'd like things done Standard senior engineering expectation. > or having to fix something they've done wrong. Standard expectations for most engineers. > And of course I don't like being in endless meetings. Meetings are also unavoidable as you become more senior, even as an IC.

bpicolo 4y ago

Staff engineers are not a monolith. Software engineering is a huge discipline. There are staff engineers out there that do more architect/solver types of work. https://staffeng.com/guides/staff-archetypes https://staffeng.com/guides/staff-archetypes In any case, leadership skills tend to go with the territory.

MuffinFlavored 4y ago
> Staff engineers are not a monolith. In my experience, all it takes is your organization to go through one "re-structure", you randomly get a new manager one day, and they have a different expectation on what staff engineer means/should do. Next thing you know, you're being expected to stop architecting so much, spend more time mentoring interns who have never coded before and got hired randomly because ______. I wouldn't roll the dice that your job description/definition/expectations stay the same team to team, manager to manager, org to org, etc. I'd avoid "dancing" for the extra raise or whatever comes with being a staff engineer versus a regular senior engineer if you don't like dealing with people/having a lot expected out of you from a communication, presentation, human interaction standpoint.
- monsieurbanana 4y ago
  I recently went through a "re-structure", and the result was a massive layoff, including Staff-level engineers. So I don't find that as a particularly compelling argument, your job description is never safe anyways.
- anyfoo 4y ago
  That's not my experience. Granted, I've only relatively recently reached staff level, but I've been working with other staff engineers (and higher) for a rather long time, including through some re-structuring. Their role seems to have stayed similar, and they still "architect". But more generally, I think what you describe can always happen, whether you have the "staff" label attached or not. Especially when you get a new manager or management chain, they can always have a different idea of what you should be doing. If anything, I feel that as a staff level engineer I'd have more pull in resisting those changes (if unwanted) than otherwise.

gedy 4y ago

Yeah I don't know when Staff SE became pitched as this lofty leadership position like this, but first half of my career in multiple companies this was basically just next step up in IC positions after Senior SE, not leadership. Principal then after that.

MuffinFlavored 4y ago
When does IC (individual contributor) go from "how efficient/effective can you make the other ICs on the team?" I've seen ICs who say "my purpose isn't to code, it's to increase the efficiency of the other ICs on the team who do code, which makes me a 10x engineer, despite not coding, because I increase each team member's individual productivity which is collectively more than I could output individually myself"
- gedy 4y ago
  Companies I've been in would call that out as technical leadership track, typically architect and above, but sometimes principal.

wstuartcl 4y ago

It really varies from role to role -- staff engineers/principals/whatever nomenclature used can be just another manager/director or a pure dev with light mentorship/heavy resource for helping with hard dev problems and designs and anywhere in-between. Also regarding nomenclature of the titles -- its all over the place in the wild some places call jr's "staff software engineer" sometimes its seniors or principals.

candybar 4y ago

I think you're understating your point. Most of what the OP mentions are generally expected of senior engineers or even mid-level engineers, though circumstances may vary. > I don't like having to check on others to ensure they're working as they should. This is impossible to avoid in most professional settings outside of entry-level. > I don't like hiring people and doing interviews. Interviewing is often a core expectation for engineers. > I don't like having to worry about "capacity" when getting a new project. Senior engineers almost certainly have to worry about whether there's capacity to take on a new project. > I don't like doing performance reviews and making sure that people's "efficiency" is as high as. This can mostly be avoided for ICs, until you get to a fairly high level (i.e. staff). > I don't like having to supervise every proposal going out to make sure our marketing department didn't promise some technical heresy. Standard senior engineering expectation. > I don't like giving people "shitty" tasks to do (because there will always be some). Prioritizing and assigning tasks are generally expected of senior or even mid-level engineers. > I don't like sitting with someone for a couple hours to explains how I'd like things done Standard senior engineering expectation. > or having to fix something they've done wrong. Standard expectations for most engineers. > And of course I don't like being in endless meetings. Meetings are also unavoidable as you become more senior, even as an IC.