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This ted talk drew my interest: "Allan Savory: How to green the world’s deserts and reverse climate change" https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_fight_

This ted talk drew my interest: "Allan Savory: How to green the world’s deserts and reverse climate change" https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_fight_desertification_and_reverse_climate_change https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_fight_desertif... > Allan Savory works to promote holistic management in the grasslands of the world. The note says "Statements in this talk have been challenged by scientists working in this field", but all I could find is that "any gains from greening after grazing are more than offset by methane emitted by the grazing animals". It seems that the method is well known, and that the criticism is on the carbon capture capacities, not the greening power. It may not reverse climate change all by itself, but all the benefits of de-multiplying the biomass, bringing back water, feeding local populations, might work (as illustrated by his works during decades). Other names I came across are Richard Perkins and Joel Salatin. I found an article that says that 15 million hectares on the five continents are successfully doing holistic management, but it was not sourced. I'd welcome books or documentaries suggestions on the topic.

andersha 4y ago
Hi Vindarel. Have you read Allan Savorys book Holistic Management? Savory Institute has successfully developed tools for farmers, grazing planning, decision making and economical planning. The book does a fascinating job explaining a holistic principles first thinking process for managing the ever changing, evolving context of a farm and land stewardship. I could imaging you would enjoy reading <teaming with microbes> about the life of soils. Paul Hawken does a great job explaining a broader scene with <Drawdown> and <Regeneration> George Monbiot writes a fascinating book <Regenesis> but comes to my understanding to the wrong conclusion. Planetary Boundaries is my go to reference and the documentary on netflix is always recommended. I have worked at Richard Perkins farm in 2015.
myshpa 4y ago
I've seen ted talks and read about Mr. Savory's ideas and methods, and from a position of a carnivore it makes (some) sense. But if you really value nature, wild life, appreciate the biodiversity and complex interactions of undisturbed ecosystems, and start seeing animal farming for what it really is, suddenly his ideas begin losing their weight. I don't like to participate in ad hominem attacks, but in this case ... that man is a livestock farmer directly responsible for the killings of tens of thousands of african elephants. The effect that had on the ecosystems is enormous. If we were to take the land away from animal farming and return it to the nature, while protecting forests and all animals, including predators, positive effects would surely outweigh mr. Savory's pseudo-scientific endeavours, maybe protecting him from another blunder of his life. And Mr. Savory could start growing vegetables, it would help more. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Savory "... while I was Director 30,529 [elephants] were killed, mostly on culls, and the countrywide population grew from an estimated 44,109 to 52,583 animals.” However, this culling program did not reverse the degradation of the land as expected, and Savory has called his decision to advocate for the culling of large numbers of elephants "the saddest and greatest blunder of my life."
- solomonb 4y ago
  The linked TED talk literally opens with this anecdote, his research into ruminant animal grazing was a giant mea culpa for how he handled those elephants, AND the subject article of this comment section is research affirming the benefit of Savory's techniques.
  - myshpa 4y ago
    > The linked TED talk literally opens with this anecdote I know. And anecdote is a word I'm not sure is apropriate for describing that incident. > his research into ruminant animal grazing was a giant mea culpa for how he handled those elephants I know, don't care, not good enough. > the subject article of this comment section is research affirming the benefit of Savory's techniques It's true that he tries to manage overgrazing and removal of old growth of grasses, but you can't imho compare natural grazing of bison herds in their natural habitat with a farmer subdividing his fenced plot into several sections and moving his herd from sector A to sector N in a controlled manner. If you're doing animal agriculture, you're not really helping the nature, doesn't matter how, you're still unnecessary exploiting it. Here, I've said it.
    - solomonb 4y ago
      > I know, don't care, not good enough. It was a horrific mistake but its not like he went out and did it by himself. He had multiple other researchers and the government backing and implementing the plan. There has to be room in society for people to learn and repair the damage from their mistakes. > you can't imho compare natural grazing of bison herds in their natural habitat with a farmer subdividing his fenced plot into several sections and moving his herd from sector A to sector N in a controlled manner. I don't think its a silver bullet to save the meat industry but I don't think the technique should be disregarded outright. For example, AFAIK California doesn't have any native ruminant species so it doesn't make sense to raise cattle here. However, in other parts of the country there is much land which historically was grazed and is now developed for other purposes. Those are precisely the places we could be producing ruminant meet ethically.
    - 4y ago

andersha 4y ago

Hi Vindarel. Have you read Allan Savorys book Holistic Management? Savory Institute has successfully developed tools for farmers, grazing planning, decision making and economical planning. The book does a fascinating job explaining a holistic principles first thinking process for managing the ever changing, evolving context of a farm and land stewardship. I could imaging you would enjoy reading <teaming with microbes> about the life of soils. Paul Hawken does a great job explaining a broader scene with <Drawdown> and <Regeneration> George Monbiot writes a fascinating book <Regenesis> but comes to my understanding to the wrong conclusion. Planetary Boundaries is my go to reference and the documentary on netflix is always recommended. I have worked at Richard Perkins farm in 2015.

myshpa 4y ago

I've seen ted talks and read about Mr. Savory's ideas and methods, and from a position of a carnivore it makes (some) sense. But if you really value nature, wild life, appreciate the biodiversity and complex interactions of undisturbed ecosystems, and start seeing animal farming for what it really is, suddenly his ideas begin losing their weight. I don't like to participate in ad hominem attacks, but in this case ... that man is a livestock farmer directly responsible for the killings of tens of thousands of african elephants. The effect that had on the ecosystems is enormous. If we were to take the land away from animal farming and return it to the nature, while protecting forests and all animals, including predators, positive effects would surely outweigh mr. Savory's pseudo-scientific endeavours, maybe protecting him from another blunder of his life. And Mr. Savory could start growing vegetables, it would help more. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Savory "... while I was Director 30,529 [elephants] were killed, mostly on culls, and the countrywide population grew from an estimated 44,109 to 52,583 animals.” However, this culling program did not reverse the degradation of the land as expected, and Savory has called his decision to advocate for the culling of large numbers of elephants "the saddest and greatest blunder of my life."

solomonb 4y ago
The linked TED talk literally opens with this anecdote, his research into ruminant animal grazing was a giant mea culpa for how he handled those elephants, AND the subject article of this comment section is research affirming the benefit of Savory's techniques.
- myshpa 4y ago
  > The linked TED talk literally opens with this anecdote I know. And anecdote is a word I'm not sure is apropriate for describing that incident. > his research into ruminant animal grazing was a giant mea culpa for how he handled those elephants I know, don't care, not good enough. > the subject article of this comment section is research affirming the benefit of Savory's techniques It's true that he tries to manage overgrazing and removal of old growth of grasses, but you can't imho compare natural grazing of bison herds in their natural habitat with a farmer subdividing his fenced plot into several sections and moving his herd from sector A to sector N in a controlled manner. If you're doing animal agriculture, you're not really helping the nature, doesn't matter how, you're still unnecessary exploiting it. Here, I've said it.
  - solomonb 4y ago
    > I know, don't care, not good enough. It was a horrific mistake but its not like he went out and did it by himself. He had multiple other researchers and the government backing and implementing the plan. There has to be room in society for people to learn and repair the damage from their mistakes. > you can't imho compare natural grazing of bison herds in their natural habitat with a farmer subdividing his fenced plot into several sections and moving his herd from sector A to sector N in a controlled manner. I don't think its a silver bullet to save the meat industry but I don't think the technique should be disregarded outright. For example, AFAIK California doesn't have any native ruminant species so it doesn't make sense to raise cattle here. However, in other parts of the country there is much land which historically was grazed and is now developed for other purposes. Those are precisely the places we could be producing ruminant meet ethically.
  - 4y ago