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Raspberry Pi Camera Module 3 released
- geerlingguy 4y agoThey expanded the lineup for the Camera Module 3 to include a standard (75°) and wide (120°) FoV lens on both the regular and NoIR (no IR filter) camera modules, and all variants use the Sony IMX708, which bumps resolution from 8 to 12 megapixels, and almost doubles the sensor size. The most important upgrade is the inclusion of autofocus (using PDAF) with full support from libcamera and Picamera2. It is pretty snappy though not quite as good as something like a Pixel or iPhone. There's also a new M12-mount HQ camera, for the same price of $50, which is useful for some more specialty lenses (though I haven't run into any M12 lenses in my own work!).
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- detrites 4y agoLooks interesting, but could find no links to full-res images. How can we assess a ~12MP camera based on examining images from it that are all inexplicably reduced to 0.3MP?
- geerlingguy 4y agoI have a video up on YouTube with some comparisons up close, and a blog post with one in particular that looks at center sharpness (my website's in my bio). I haven't had a chance to upload the originals anywhere yet, though. I'd say the sensor is very good but the lenses they're using aren't capable of a full 12 MP of resolution. The wide angle lens controls distortion pretty well, but the standard lens shows a little distortion around the sides. Still a huge improvement over the Camera Module v2 in every aspect. Autofocus worked especially well, even better than the ArduCam models I tested last year.
- icelancer 4y agoJeff: Love your channel. Watched your last video on this - neat project. Do you have any advice on getting 240FPS out of these modules?
- capableweb 4y agoI'm not Jeff, but this will be helpful regardless: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34308773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34308773
- detrites 4y agoHaven't checked the blog yet but that's a great video - thorough and impartial. Thank you! Everything I needed to know. Link: https://youtu.be/watch?v=1EIFfln3Kxs https://youtu.be/watch?v=1EIFfln3Kxs
- miyuru 4y agoTIP: the image urls in the blog post have width and height in the url, you can remove them view the original image. https://www.raspberrypi.com/app/uploads/2023/01/ely2_no_hdr-copy.jpg https://www.raspberrypi.com/app/uploads/2023/01/ely2_no_hdr-... https://www.raspberrypi.com/app/uploads/2023/01/ely2_wide_nohdr.jpg https://www.raspberrypi.com/app/uploads/2023/01/ely2_wide_no... https://www.raspberrypi.com/app/uploads/2023/01/underexposed.jpg https://www.raspberrypi.com/app/uploads/2023/01/underexposed... https://www.raspberrypi.com/app/uploads/2023/01/overexposed.jpg https://www.raspberrypi.com/app/uploads/2023/01/overexposed.... https://www.raspberrypi.com/app/uploads/2023/01/hdr_on.jpg https://www.raspberrypi.com/app/uploads/2023/01/hdr_on.jpg
- 404mm 4y agoThanks for this! I just ordered one for OctoPi to monitor printer progress. I decided to try the wide version.
- alkz 4y agothis is exactly what we needed, a camera to attach to an unobtainable device
- Grazester 4y agoEven in its height of "unobtainable" I was able to get one without having to try too hard and I was being picky about the configuration I wanted. I did have to buy from a German site but it was obtainable. I believe it should be much easier now.
- wyuenho 4y agothe height of unobtainable was just a couple of weeks ago, and it lasted for almost a year in which rpilocator was only showing a few shops in the world selling a few dozen pis in a different form factor you are looking for at a time.
- Grazester 4y agoIt certainly wasn't a couple weeks ago and this has been going on a lot longer than a years ago.
- geerlingguy 4y agoTo anyone looking, follow rpilocator.com. Supply has been slowly improving.
- bluehatbrit 4y agoI managed to get one via a rpilocator.com alert (used the rss feed to send myself an email alert) within about 2-3 weeks of setting it up. It's not perfect but it worked and I managed to get an 8GB Pi 4.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ofrzeta 4y ago
- parkersweb 4y agoDoes this make the Pi webcam a viable project now? I looked into making one during the pandemic - but i think lack of auto-focus was one of the things that caused me to rule it out at the time…
- capableweb 4y agoAuto-focus seems like one of the lesser useful features for webcam (or rather, the use case of a webcam seems to not require auto-focus that much) since the object distance remains largely the same for the duration of the video call, at least the video calls I'm usually in. Maybe people have a different setup that I, but I usually remain the same distance away from my monitor at most times.
- AYBABTME 4y agoGood webcam setups have a sharp depth of field, which makes the speaker look sharp and the background blurred. This requires auto-focus because a few centimetres matters to be in field.
- capableweb 4y ago> Good webcam setups have a sharp depth of field, which makes the speaker look sharp and the background blurred I'm guessing you mean "shallow depth of field" rather than "sharp" here. And you probably don't want it to be so shallow so a few centimeters would matter, then your nose could be in focus but your ears not, or vice-versa. That's a bit too shallow. It also doesn't require auto-focus, it requires you to be able to put the camera at a good distance with the correct f-stop, or being able to change the f-stop one way or another. Auto-focus is more for cases when the subject/object moves a lot forward/backward from the perspective of the camera, so you don't have to manually adjust things.
- henryackerman 4y agoI'd say auto-focus is a requirement for UX. Most users won't find the manual focus adjust button.
- icelancer 4y agoOf course. Still no ability to go above 120FPS. I have tons of comments on this in my history about trying to extract raw frames from the RPi camera modules and go faster if anyone cares to help. So ridiculous these sensors and data lanes on everything embedded can't get us 240FPS at even VGA resolution.
- capableweb 4y agoIt is possible! This article been on the HN frontpage at least twice: "A Guide to Recording 660FPS Video On A $6 Raspberry Pi Camera" - https://blog.robertelder.org/recording-660-fps-on-raspberry-pi-camera/ https://blog.robertelder.org/recording-660-fps-on-raspberry-... - Aug 6, 2019 | 103 comments | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20627574 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20627574 - Dec 27, 2021 | 64 comments | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29703293 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29703293 Obviously, the resolution is really low (640x64) but for the price, the quality seems quite nice.
- threatripper 4y agoAFAIK the normal RPi boards only provide 2 MIPI lanes while 4 MIPI lanes would be possible by most camera modules and the processor. Therefore we only have half of the possible the bandwidth available. For higher resolutions the bandwidth is a limiting factor. There are some boards and camera modules that use 4 lanes. Those boards use different connectors and therefore are not compatible with the default RPi camera cables this is probably the reason why the 4 lane option is not offered by default. In order to enable higher framerates you need to set up additional "modes" in some configuration file. I assume that by default only "relatively reliable modes" are configured. That's where the limitation to 120 FPS comes from. Calculating other modes requires some special tool that is specific to the camera chip. Also you need some luck that those modes actually work for you.
- fps-hero 4y agoIt’s so frustrating that the entire CSI camera module ecosystem has been completely handicapped by the choice of connector for the camera module. The V1 camera module (OV5647) only supported two lanes, so it was a fair enough decision then, but they had a chance to change it when they changed connector on the PiZero. The connector even had the 4 extra pins specifically to support 4 lane CSI, but it was as if it was forgotten about. The V2 camera came out not long after so the combination would have made for a massive upgrade. I think they ended up back peddling from the new connector due to the horrific combination of a too thin custom flat flex cable with a connector that could barely meet its 10 mating cycle rating. It didn’t have to be that way, a standard 0.5mm FFC with decent swing down latch connector is 10x more robust.
- lofaszvanitt 4y agoVery good now someone come up with a solution to the wiring mess that comes with any kind of RPI thing.
- aulin 4y agouse the 40pin connector either to a custom designed hat or to a separate board with a ribbon cable
- lofaszvanitt 4y agoThe goal is to eliminate that altogether, at least in the design phase. You put down the modules, they see each other, can communicate, do the coding about which modules' signal goes where, what processes what etc., and when you are done it either works as is or an automated thing can create the final boards/cabling/wiring for you. The less hurdles in the prototyping phase the better. I know it sounds impossible, but this wiring this to that always gets on my nerves. So a software wiring kinda thing with a "wireless" approach would be very much welcomed.
- 15155 4y agoI just designed and built an RPI-hat style PCB with JLCPCB that has multiple MCUs, power, and a 40-pin connector on-board. Each 100mm x 100mm board was $~10 a piece, assembled and delivered to the US (the cost mostly consisting of my specific parts.) It's pretty cheap, low effort to prototype a real PCB.
- ilyt 4y agoSounds like you don't enjoy hardware in the first place... or maybe would enjoy something like PLC more than prototyping. Once you get things in place making a PCB that connects modules neatly really isn't a big deal, especially if you use ready-made modules
- adql 4y agoDoes it gave DRM this time too ?
- capableweb 4y agoAre you talking about DRM as in "Digital Rights Management"? As far as I know, cameras have nothing to do with that type of DRM, that's up to the playback device, not the recording.
- jojobas 4y agoRPi won't use generic cameras, only RPi-signed ones, it is a form of DRM.
- zyx321 4y agoQuite the opposite. The v3 camera does not support the old proprietary drivers, current versions of pi OS ship with open source drivers by default. It seems Raspberry Foundation didn't like the old driver any more than we did.
- jojobas 4y agoDoes that actually mean you can use a knock-off v3-like camera? There is no contradiction between an open source driver and the camera having to authenticate against closed-source videocore firmware.
- capableweb 4y agoAh, I see. I'm more familiar with the terms "hardware restrictions" or "vendor lock-in" in that case, as I see DRM to be strictly software enforced restrictions, guess the "Digital" in DRM throws me off or something.
- nsteel 4y agoIf DRM is still needed (no idea) then you'd expect an official product to support it. I can't think of a use case where lack of DRM support by the camera could possibly be a problem for you.
- asim 4y agoWhat case do you use for this? How do you put this in the device?
- mkl 4y agoThere's a camera connector on the board: https://www.pishop.us/raspberry-pi-4-information/ https://www.pishop.us/raspberry-pi-4-information/ A variety of cases either provide access to the connector, or have a camera mount. You can find them by searching.
- zyx321 4y agoThere's a warning in the article that the official Zero case does not support the new camera. According to the specs it is around 30% thicker than the original camera module, and the fish eye variant is even thicker still. Many cases fit pretty tightly and will not be compatible.
- Shish2k 4y agoIs anyone aware of any projects to do auto-zoom on a fisheye lens? (ie, the camera is set up to see the whole room, and then software crops that to just show the area with a person in it, and then re-export that video as a new source so that other software can use it without needing to be fisheye-aware)
- tomstuart 4y agoThis isn’t a complete project, but it’s a good start if you wanted to hack on the idea yourself: https://learnopencv.com/center-stage-for-zoom-calls-using-mediapipe/ https://learnopencv.com/center-stage-for-zoom-calls-using-me...
- philliphaydon 4y agoThis is nice but it's impossible to get a Raspberry Pi 4 anymore without selling a kidney.
- ctz 4y ago> impossible Exaggeration. I can walk to a shop 20 minutes away and buy them off the shelf for RRP.
- NavinF 4y agoThen why aren't you reselling them?
- philliphaydon 4y agoThat's nice. I live in Taiwan, there's no where to buy it off the shelf. I could get it off Amazon but it's $260 USD.
- wyuenho 4y agoSomeone who lives in Cambridge saying "let them eat cake" ?
- wildrhythms 4y agoYou are very fortunate. https://rpilocator.com/ https://rpilocator.com/
- RugnirViking 4y agoSeriously, where in the world do you live? Plane tickets will likely be cheaper than aquiring one here
- j0hnyl 4y agoWhen's the last time you actually went to check if they are on the shelf?
- nsteel 4y agoYou could make a request to rpilocator for support in your region. Stock is set to improve this year anyway so don't sell your kidney quite yet.
- glasss 4y agoThis is great, I just hope that stock gets better for the pi and stays that way. I have a few projects I'm waiting to start.
- aliqot 4y agoAccording to Pi Locator, there hasn't been an 8gb RasPi in USA since October 2022. Best to move on to another company that prioritizes retail rather than donation-commitments.
- negzero7 4y agoAny suggestions on what's a good Pi replacement?
- Jaygles 4y agoThe new Orange Pi 5 has a good price for the RK3588s it uses, and can support up to 32gb of RAM. My testing shows it being 3-4x faster than the Raspberry Pi 4 4gb. Down side is it just released, so the software support is still in its infancy. And it doesn't have wifi+bt built in, so you need to use a dongle or use up the NVME slot for adding that functionality.
- rektide 4y agoI bought a orange pi 5, but havent tried it yet. Various kernel-devs on ActivityPub had some very very nasty things to say about rk3588 board stability. Different folk, on different boards. Maybe this time will be better, who knows, and maybe better drivers will improve things, but seeing such sad kernel devs has been demoralizing.
- sweetjuly 4y agoI would love to read the rants if you can find them. I was really considering getting some RK3588 based boards since it seems to be the most powerful ARM based SoC you can actually buy.
- RobotToaster 4y agoDoes this one have DRM like the last one?
- gnarbarian 4y agomost likely. that's how the pi foundation retains control to prevent cheap Chinese knock offs.
- runnerup 4y agoWhat does the DRM prevent, specifically? Any use of the camera ribbon cable interface by any non-licensed camera? Edit edit: I still have no idea...see reply from 'mrbteveman below. Old first edit (wrong): Apparently, yes. This comment[0](2019) explains it slightly more. Evidently the ribbon cable ("CSI interface") can be used by pretty much anything...as long as that thing is not a camera / doesn't need the usual on-board image processing. Evidently this prevents anyone from coming out with pi-compatible cameras with different features, e.g. different resolutions/framerates/night vision/infrared/zoom/etc. 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20261787 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20261787
- gnarbarian 4y agoI can't be specific but your answer seems correct based on my experience. it also makes it more challenging (unintentionally?) when trying to use the camera on other OSs like Ubuntu core.
- gnarbarian 4y agoin my experience you're better off just going with a USB camera most of the time. it's a cleaner abstraction point and supports more hardware and operating systems.
- mrsteveman1 4y ago> What does the DRM prevent, specifically? Any use of the camera ribbon cable interface by any non-licensed camera? > Apparently, yes. This comment[0](2019) explains it slightly more. Evidently the ribbon cable ("CSI interface") can be used by pretty much anything...as long as that thing is not a camera / doesn't need the usual on-board image processing. This isn't accurate, the only thing they do is limit specific sensors from being used unless there is a matching authentication chip on the module, because those specific sensors are the ones they have manufactured camera modules with. So for example the Pi Camera v2 module uses an imx219 sensor from sony and an authentication chip that the Pi firmware can check to verify the module was actually made by the Raspberry Pi company. If you buy a 3rd party imx219 camera module (which would not have that authentication chip), it will not work on the regular Pi boards (but it will work with the Pi compute module boards because they don't do the authentication chip verification). There have been plenty of 3rd party camera modules with entirely different sensors that work on the Pi for years, though with quirks related to the closed source drivers, but the modern libcamera stack on the Pi is explicitly designed to enable 3rd party camera modules.
- abdullahkhalids 4y agoI want to build a device/product that needs a board+wide-angle-camera combo? Board does not need to be fast. I suspect, even a fast arduino might work. What are other great combos that exist out there?
- brk 4y agoESP-CAM https://randomnerdtutorials.com/esp32-cam-video-streaming-face-recognition-arduino-ide/ https://randomnerdtutorials.com/esp32-cam-video-streaming-fa...
- synergy20 4y agoThe camera modules(with PIR, PTZ, auto-focus, night-mode) on a 38mm*38mm board were a solved problem at lower cost due to huge volume of IP cameras from China. However the code on those modules are fully closed(most running an older version of Linux). RPi's modules are priced reasonably enough to compete against clones from China's vendor, really hard to do, but it did it so far like a magic.
- donatj 4y agoNow if I could just get a Raspberry Pi for under $100.
- geerlingguy 4y agoFor the past month I've been seeing some supply of RPi 4 on rpilocator.com almost every day. Not much, but better than when there were only like a dozen per week. And Eben Upton says it should improve and not be an issue by the second half of this year. I sure hope that's the case, because it feels like it's been 2 years since I could just buy one at Micro Center, and the other SBC boards I've been testing are either too unsupported/unpopular or quite expensive as well.
- dheera 4y agoCan we PLEASE have a proper 35mm full frame sensor in a Raspberry Pi camera? Something like a IMX521? I realize it would be $1500 but I'd buy it in a heartbeat, there is SO much I could do with a hacker-friendly DSLR-quality sensor.
- steve_adams_86 4y agoHave you heard of anyone trying to reuse these kinds of sensors from dead cameras? Are they too difficult to resurrect and reuse?
- immmmmm 4y agoif you need more specific MIPI CSI sensors RPi compatible you can check this company: https://www.vision-components.com/ https://www.vision-components.com/ their support wasn't exceptional in the past but kinda improved recently. the modular camera module ecosystem is quite interesting, using this for research.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]