4 ms·

Beyond Paperless: The Paperless Bathroom

16 points by kellyhclay 15y ago

cavilling_elite 15y ago
I came here to look for the obligatory 3 shells comment. :)
- praptak 15y ago
  It is right there in the article itself.
alexatkeplar 15y ago
The casual assertion that people in the UK barely use lavatory paper is beyond funny. We use epic amounts
- arethuza 15y ago
  "Every Briton flushes 17.6 kilos (39lb) of toilet paper down the lavatory every year, almost two and half times the European average, according to tissue industry figures." From: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1541657/Britons-lead-the-way-in-toilet-paper-use.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1541657/Britons-le...
jasonkester 15y ago
I've always been a fan of the SE Asia style "two buckets" solution, and I tend to fall back on it whenever I'm in a country with dodgy plumbing that won't handle toilet paper. For my money, I'll trade an extra thorough hand wash for a giant garbage sack of used toilet paper in my hotel room any day.
pragmatic 15y ago
What about tissue paper (Kleenex to the layman)?
- rosser 15y ago
  That was the original purpose of the handkerchief. It's only since we started using dead tree for blowing our noses that hankys became primarily decorative.
- jakeludington 15y ago
  The article mentions replacing with cloth.
mikeash 15y ago
98% of toilet paper rolls the US come from virgin forest? And the only source for this is the Daily Mail? Riiight. I did a quick search, and found a more reliable article[1] from the New York Times that states that 25-50% comes from tree farms, and most of the remainder comes from second-growth forests, not virgin forests. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/world/americas/26iht-paper.1.20453524.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/world/americas/26iht-paper...
- kellyhclay 15y ago
  Another article from the New York Times states that less than 2% of TP for at-home use is made from 100 percent recycled fibers. In the other 98% of TP, it appears, contains some paper derived from wood from virgin forests. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/science/earth/26charmin.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/science/earth/26charmin.ht...
  - mikeash 15y ago
    So 98% contains some virgin fiber, versus 98% coming from virgin forests. A significant difference!
patrickyeon 15y ago
Wikipedia (with sources tha may or may not be better than the Daily Mail) says the average American uses about half a tree worth of toilet paper a year[1]. I don't know about the virgin forest bit, nor how hard it is to find toilet paper from recycled sources (it is one of the lowest grade papers, so I think would be easy to produce from recycled fibers). If you're worried about the environment, some other possible resolutions: * eat vegetarian one day a week * vow not to drive for errands less than a mile away * switch to low-energy light bulbs (Caveat: Un-sourced claim) I suspect any one of those would offer a benefit for mother nature at least an order of magnitude above not using toilet paper. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_paper#Environmental_considerations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_paper#Environmental_cons...
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  Do "errands less than a mile away" exist for most Americans? I've spend the last decade of so living in major cities, so the vast majority of my errands are much less than a mile away, but where I grew up a single mile wouldn't even get me out of residential zoned areas.
  - kellyhclay 15y ago
    Yes, they do :) My nearest shopping area (starbucks/grocery store/dry cleaner) is 7 miles away and the nearest "city" with a Target, fast food and a small mall is a 45 minute drive.
  - jakeludington 15y ago
    My current home is 2 miles from the nearest retail district, but I previously lived just under a mile from 90% of the places I shopped. Because of the road layouts, it was easier to drive for some things than walk.
  - stonemetal 15y ago
    The gas station is less than a mile away, but I am not sure there is a point to filling up without my car.
yummyfajitas 15y ago
A lot of Asia does this. It makes for great comedy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwJI_jwhub0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwJI_jwhub0 (For those who never lived in India: water has less than 50% uptime, so the empty bucket + water outage is the result of stupidity rather than bad luck.)
zeteo 15y ago
There's a good deal of energy and emissions involved in building a $400 fixture from scratch, and also an ongoing cost in pumping the water. Proper carbon accounting might actually reveal bidet use is worse than toilet paper (also, tree farms sequester carbon dioxide as a side benefit).
wdewind 15y ago
The focus on getting rid of paper is naive when you start talking about Dyson Airblades. It's not just the cost of running the thing that matters, it's the cost of creating and maintaining the thing. The same principal counts for hybrid cars. They feel environmentally friendly because of marketing campaigns that focus on metrics like paper and gasoline consumption, but when you count the cost of creation, and even more importantly the cost of getting rid of them, it's not as black and white as "we should move off paper and gasoline."
- gerggerg 15y ago
  Environmentally friendly and low cost do not have a direct correlation. You can strive for both but they do not depend on each-other.
  - wdewind 15y ago
    I was referring to environmental cost, not monetary cost.
    - gerggerg 15y ago
      I think the word people use most often is impact. Environmental impact. :)
leoedin 15y ago
>Some other countries around the world, including Japan and the UK, however, rarely use toilet paper at all. I can't speak for Japan, but the UK? Really? Are people secretly running around here washing their bums? I think I know one person with a bidet, and I'm pretty certain they've never used it to wash their bum. The article reeks of poorly researched "facts". Encourage less use of paper, sure, but the environmental cost of installing an additional fixture and using more water must be considered.
sodiumphosphate 15y ago
Using paper to clean the anus is not only wasteful, it's unpleasant and ineffective. The universal solvent is clearly the superior option for this daily task. As nice a thing as it is, it doesn't take a $400 bidet to wash your ass with water. Use your imagination. You can even do it in the woods, like a bear with a water bottle. And if you insist on using paper, I humbly recommend the delicate tissues of the Christian Bible, which should be a fine alternative to such old darlings of western bathroom culture as the Sears, Roebuck and Co. catalog, and are available for free all over the damned place.

16 points by kellyhclay 15y ago

cavilling_elite 15y ago

I came here to look for the obligatory 3 shells comment. :)

praptak 15y ago
It is right there in the article itself.

alexatkeplar 15y ago

The casual assertion that people in the UK barely use lavatory paper is beyond funny. We use epic amounts

arethuza 15y ago
"Every Briton flushes 17.6 kilos (39lb) of toilet paper down the lavatory every year, almost two and half times the European average, according to tissue industry figures." From: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1541657/Britons-lead-the-way-in-toilet-paper-use.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1541657/Britons-le...

jasonkester 15y ago

I've always been a fan of the SE Asia style "two buckets" solution, and I tend to fall back on it whenever I'm in a country with dodgy plumbing that won't handle toilet paper. For my money, I'll trade an extra thorough hand wash for a giant garbage sack of used toilet paper in my hotel room any day.

pragmatic 15y ago

What about tissue paper (Kleenex to the layman)?

rosser 15y ago
That was the original purpose of the handkerchief. It's only since we started using dead tree for blowing our noses that hankys became primarily decorative.
jakeludington 15y ago
The article mentions replacing with cloth.

mikeash 15y ago

98% of toilet paper rolls the US come from virgin forest? And the only source for this is the Daily Mail? Riiight. I did a quick search, and found a more reliable article[1] from the New York Times that states that 25-50% comes from tree farms, and most of the remainder comes from second-growth forests, not virgin forests. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/world/americas/26iht-paper.1.20453524.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/world/americas/26iht-paper...

kellyhclay 15y ago
Another article from the New York Times states that less than 2% of TP for at-home use is made from 100 percent recycled fibers. In the other 98% of TP, it appears, contains some paper derived from wood from virgin forests. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/science/earth/26charmin.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/science/earth/26charmin.ht...
- mikeash 15y ago
  So 98% contains some virgin fiber, versus 98% coming from virgin forests. A significant difference!

patrickyeon 15y ago

Wikipedia (with sources tha may or may not be better than the Daily Mail) says the average American uses about half a tree worth of toilet paper a year[1]. I don't know about the virgin forest bit, nor how hard it is to find toilet paper from recycled sources (it is one of the lowest grade papers, so I think would be easy to produce from recycled fibers). If you're worried about the environment, some other possible resolutions: * eat vegetarian one day a week * vow not to drive for errands less than a mile away * switch to low-energy light bulbs (Caveat: Un-sourced claim) I suspect any one of those would offer a benefit for mother nature at least an order of magnitude above not using toilet paper. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_paper#Environmental_considerations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_paper#Environmental_cons...

burgerbrain 15y ago
Do "errands less than a mile away" exist for most Americans? I've spend the last decade of so living in major cities, so the vast majority of my errands are much less than a mile away, but where I grew up a single mile wouldn't even get me out of residential zoned areas.
- kellyhclay 15y ago
  Yes, they do :) My nearest shopping area (starbucks/grocery store/dry cleaner) is 7 miles away and the nearest "city" with a Target, fast food and a small mall is a 45 minute drive.
- jakeludington 15y ago
  My current home is 2 miles from the nearest retail district, but I previously lived just under a mile from 90% of the places I shopped. Because of the road layouts, it was easier to drive for some things than walk.
- stonemetal 15y ago
  The gas station is less than a mile away, but I am not sure there is a point to filling up without my car.

yummyfajitas 15y ago

A lot of Asia does this. It makes for great comedy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwJI_jwhub0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwJI_jwhub0 (For those who never lived in India: water has less than 50% uptime, so the empty bucket + water outage is the result of stupidity rather than bad luck.)

zeteo 15y ago

There's a good deal of energy and emissions involved in building a $400 fixture from scratch, and also an ongoing cost in pumping the water. Proper carbon accounting might actually reveal bidet use is worse than toilet paper (also, tree farms sequester carbon dioxide as a side benefit).

wdewind 15y ago

The focus on getting rid of paper is naive when you start talking about Dyson Airblades. It's not just the cost of running the thing that matters, it's the cost of creating and maintaining the thing. The same principal counts for hybrid cars. They feel environmentally friendly because of marketing campaigns that focus on metrics like paper and gasoline consumption, but when you count the cost of creation, and even more importantly the cost of getting rid of them, it's not as black and white as "we should move off paper and gasoline."

gerggerg 15y ago
Environmentally friendly and low cost do not have a direct correlation. You can strive for both but they do not depend on each-other.
- wdewind 15y ago
  I was referring to environmental cost, not monetary cost.
  - gerggerg 15y ago
    I think the word people use most often is impact. Environmental impact. :)

leoedin 15y ago

>Some other countries around the world, including Japan and the UK, however, rarely use toilet paper at all. I can't speak for Japan, but the UK? Really? Are people secretly running around here washing their bums? I think I know one person with a bidet, and I'm pretty certain they've never used it to wash their bum. The article reeks of poorly researched "facts". Encourage less use of paper, sure, but the environmental cost of installing an additional fixture and using more water must be considered.

sodiumphosphate 15y ago

Using paper to clean the anus is not only wasteful, it's unpleasant and ineffective. The universal solvent is clearly the superior option for this daily task. As nice a thing as it is, it doesn't take a $400 bidet to wash your ass with water. Use your imagination. You can even do it in the woods, like a bear with a water bottle. And if you insist on using paper, I humbly recommend the delicate tissues of the Christian Bible, which should be a fine alternative to such old darlings of western bathroom culture as the Sears, Roebuck and Co. catalog, and are available for free all over the damned place.