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My understanding is that 81% of ocean waste comes from rivers in poorer Asian countries. And the rest is from marine sources (fishing nets, lines, ropes, and ab

My understanding is that 81% of ocean waste comes from rivers in poorer Asian countries. And the rest is from marine sources (fishing nets, lines, ropes, and abandoned vessels) [1]. Not much seems to come from wealthier nations, let alone plastic straws/plates/etc. I'm no expert, and I do think ocean waste is a problem that needs to be taken seriously. But it seems to me that all I hear is politicians talk about banning straws (to very little effect on ocean plastic) in, say, Australia, rather than helping a country like the Philippines (responsible for one-third of global ocean plastic) improve waste management. As I said I'm no expert, but is helping poorer countries improve waste management such a monumentally difficult task? [1] https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics

europeanguy 4y ago
My understanding is that waste doesn't seem to come from wealthier nations because they pay poor nations to "properly dispose" of it, who in turns just dump them in their rivers.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  That's terrible for those countries to take the money to dispose of it and then just dump it in the ocean.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    It's also terrible to pay the absolute lowest bidder to "properly dispose of it" when you know they are unlikely to do any such thing for the amount you paid.
    - throwawaylinux 4y ago
      Not if they also ban plastic straws (that mostly get responsibly disposed of) for their own citizens! But no, the whole "rich countries are causing the problem by exporting plastics to the poors" thing is misinformation https://ourworldindata.org/plastic-waste-trade https://ourworldindata.org/plastic-waste-trade.
okwubodu 4y ago
Most wealthy nations export a large chunk of their plastic and other waste to poorer countries. The conclusion that article came to is very strange.
- tastysandwich 4y ago
  That's interesting. This article takes a further look at the issue. https://ourworldindata.org/plastic-waste-trade https://ourworldindata.org/plastic-waste-trade I estimate that a few percent – possibly up to 5% – of the world’s ocean plastics could come from rich countries exporting their waste overseas. That could bring the total up to 10%: 5% directly from rivers in these regions, plus a further 5% from trade. And The world generates around 350 million tonnes of plastic waste per year. That means that around 2% of waste is traded. The remaining 98% is handled domestically. It’s sent to a landfill, recycled, or incinerated in the country where the waste was generated. The idea that most of the world’s plastic waste is shipped overseas is incorrect. One reason why this figure is so low is that it’s mostly recycled waste that’s traded, and only 20% of the world’s plastic is recycled. Over the last decade, we’ve seen a large decline in the amount of plastic waste traded. Rates have fallen by two-thirds since 2010. So I suppose you can say some of that waste is ours, but the majority doesn't seem to be.
advisedwang 4y ago
The article implies the motivation for this ban is reducing landfill (and downstream impacts of landfill) not direct ocean waste.
stjohnswarts 4y ago
This is a feel good leftist political scheme to make people feel better while the 99% problem lingers. The problem ain't plastic based plates and cutlery
- barbazoo 4y ago
  It's always some other problem that should be solved, it's exhausting... It's unsustainable to wrap stuff in plastic only for that wrapper to be thrown away and buried in a mountain of other garbage. Same with cutlery. When have we become so fucking lazy that banning single use plastics is a controversial thing? Even if it's not important in the grand scheme of things, how are other things ever supposed to change if we keep normalizing that kind of unsustainable behavior.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    I'd feel much more accepting of the small, near meaningless, changes if the large, most impactful, changes weren't being deliberately ignored. As long as very low impact changes are pushed on the masses to deflect from failures to make genuinely impactful change people are going to resent them, even when ultimately they're not entirely bad ideas on their own.
    - willcipriano 4y ago
      I'll believe the environmentalists when they give up air travel.
      - barbazoo 4y ago
        This mindset achieves nothing.
      - autoexec 4y ago
        It shouldn't be necessary to abandon aviation technology entirely. I'm sure there are a lot of optimizations that could help reduce the number of flights in the air for military, passenger, and freight/cargo as well as advancements in the technology that would make the planes in the air even less harmful. While I do think we'll need to face some lifestyle changes, I don't think extremes like giving up cars for horses, abandoning aviation, or going back to candles and fires for lighting and heating are needed. We can do better and still enjoy the benefits of technological advancements even if the way we enjoy them changes.

europeanguy 4y ago

My understanding is that waste doesn't seem to come from wealthier nations because they pay poor nations to "properly dispose" of it, who in turns just dump them in their rivers.

throwawaylinux 4y ago
That's terrible for those countries to take the money to dispose of it and then just dump it in the ocean.
- mlyle 4y ago
  It's also terrible to pay the absolute lowest bidder to "properly dispose of it" when you know they are unlikely to do any such thing for the amount you paid.
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    Not if they also ban plastic straws (that mostly get responsibly disposed of) for their own citizens! But no, the whole "rich countries are causing the problem by exporting plastics to the poors" thing is misinformation https://ourworldindata.org/plastic-waste-trade https://ourworldindata.org/plastic-waste-trade.

okwubodu 4y ago

Most wealthy nations export a large chunk of their plastic and other waste to poorer countries. The conclusion that article came to is very strange.

tastysandwich 4y ago
That's interesting. This article takes a further look at the issue. https://ourworldindata.org/plastic-waste-trade https://ourworldindata.org/plastic-waste-trade I estimate that a few percent – possibly up to 5% – of the world’s ocean plastics could come from rich countries exporting their waste overseas. That could bring the total up to 10%: 5% directly from rivers in these regions, plus a further 5% from trade. And The world generates around 350 million tonnes of plastic waste per year. That means that around 2% of waste is traded. The remaining 98% is handled domestically. It’s sent to a landfill, recycled, or incinerated in the country where the waste was generated. The idea that most of the world’s plastic waste is shipped overseas is incorrect. One reason why this figure is so low is that it’s mostly recycled waste that’s traded, and only 20% of the world’s plastic is recycled. Over the last decade, we’ve seen a large decline in the amount of plastic waste traded. Rates have fallen by two-thirds since 2010. So I suppose you can say some of that waste is ours, but the majority doesn't seem to be.

advisedwang 4y ago

The article implies the motivation for this ban is reducing landfill (and downstream impacts of landfill) not direct ocean waste.

stjohnswarts 4y ago

This is a feel good leftist political scheme to make people feel better while the 99% problem lingers. The problem ain't plastic based plates and cutlery

barbazoo 4y ago
It's always some other problem that should be solved, it's exhausting... It's unsustainable to wrap stuff in plastic only for that wrapper to be thrown away and buried in a mountain of other garbage. Same with cutlery. When have we become so fucking lazy that banning single use plastics is a controversial thing? Even if it's not important in the grand scheme of things, how are other things ever supposed to change if we keep normalizing that kind of unsustainable behavior.
- autoexec 4y ago
  I'd feel much more accepting of the small, near meaningless, changes if the large, most impactful, changes weren't being deliberately ignored. As long as very low impact changes are pushed on the masses to deflect from failures to make genuinely impactful change people are going to resent them, even when ultimately they're not entirely bad ideas on their own.
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    I'll believe the environmentalists when they give up air travel.
    - barbazoo 4y ago
      This mindset achieves nothing.
    - autoexec 4y ago
      It shouldn't be necessary to abandon aviation technology entirely. I'm sure there are a lot of optimizations that could help reduce the number of flights in the air for military, passenger, and freight/cargo as well as advancements in the technology that would make the planes in the air even less harmful. While I do think we'll need to face some lifestyle changes, I don't think extremes like giving up cars for horses, abandoning aviation, or going back to candles and fires for lighting and heating are needed. We can do better and still enjoy the benefits of technological advancements even if the way we enjoy them changes.