3 ms·

Implementing VisiCalc (2003): Bob Frankston's design notes

72 points by ohjeez 4y ago

nn3 4y ago
"If we couldn't figure out how to explain a feature on the reference card we would change the program." Wish more software would follow that principle
- fsckboy 4y ago
  well then you'll love apps on smartphones! they don't do anything complex, think of each app as a small garden that has a wall around it to keep out any complications. Luckily, they frequently allow for in-garden purchases so you don't even need to leave to get more fertilizer, etc. and the gardeners even get paid that way, no worries! they were even able to do away with the reference cards!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
nudpiedo 4y ago
"We originally planned to let people rename the rows and columns with labels and implemented the feature. Eventually we decided that we needed to assure stable reference names so prevented people form moving into the zeroth row or column. Instead we implemented the ability to split the screen vertically or horizontally. " All the oposite from today's design in which they let people rename everything.
- capableweb 4y ago
  > All the oposite from today's design in which they let people rename everything. What spreadsheet program lets you rename a row or a column? The pattern I see all around is that you add your own column names as the first row for example, but the actual column doesn't get renamed. Or, you get to define your own "Named Ranges" where you can assign a name, but the row/column identifier stays the same. But I don't think I've seen any software allowing you to rename column C to whatever you want, for example.
  - okennedy 4y ago
    Apple's Numbers has a relatively clever way to pull this off. If a cell (e.g., B:$2) is in a table with a column (or row) header, all formulas will use the header field value in the variable. e.g., = floor( [Strength:$Value] / 2 - 5, 1) These labels are purely descriptive. The underlying reference is still B:$2, but it makes formulas infinitely more readable without needing to manually define named ranges for everything. (Among many other nice features Numbers has... one of the few things I miss since my switch to Linux)
kamphey 4y ago
They'd been working/programming a decade! "By the time we created VisiCalc Dan and I had been working professional and academically for well over a decade." also I found this interesting. "The Apple's screen was 40 columns and 25 rows. " That's 1,000 cells. And now a modern Google Sheets starts with 26 columns and 1,000 rows. 26,000 cells. But also can go up to 10,000,000 cells!
- WelcomeShorty 4y ago
  The 40 by 25 are characters, not cells :) See: http://www.bricklin.com/history/refcard5.htm http://www.bricklin.com/history/refcard5.htm
- another2another 4y ago
  "I started to program VisiCalc in November 1978 and we shipped the first production copy in October 1979." Just one year. "In November of 1978 I started to prototype VisiCalc. We eventually shipped that prototype." Some things never change :)
dang 4y ago
Related: Implementing VisiCalc (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18703165 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18703165 - Dec 2018 (18 comments) Implementing VisiCalc (2003) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15889105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15889105 - Dec 2017 (1 comment) Implementing VisiCalc (2003) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15587048 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15587048 - Oct 2017 (17 comments) Also: VisiCalc Executable for the IBM PC (1999) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30928076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30928076 - April 2022 (53 comments) VisiCalc: Information from Its Creators, Dan Bricklin and Bob Frankston - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28229175 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28229175 - Aug 2021 (57 comments) VisiCalc's Spreadsheets Changed the World - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20197060 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20197060 - June 2019 (45 comments) Why a simple spreadsheet spread like wildfire - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10830686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10830686 - Jan 2016 (28 comments) How I got permission to post VisiCalc (1999) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10641297 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10641297 - Nov 2015 (2 comments) VisiCalc - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9257364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9257364 - March 2015 (7 comments) Why didn't we patent the spreadsheet? Were we stupid? (1999) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6418682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6418682 - Sept 2013 (135 comments) VisiCalc memories - the first Killer App - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=856365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=856365 - Oct 2009 (2 comments) VisiCalc: The 30th Anniversary - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=432091 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=432091 - Jan 2009 (8 comments) VisiCalc during the early days [w/pics] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=176783 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=176783 - April 2008 (3 comments) Why should a product want to be "the next VisiCalc"? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=169952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=169952 - April 2008 (1 comment)

72 points by ohjeez 4y ago

nn3 4y ago

"If we couldn't figure out how to explain a feature on the reference card we would change the program." Wish more software would follow that principle

fsckboy 4y ago
well then you'll love apps on smartphones! they don't do anything complex, think of each app as a small garden that has a wall around it to keep out any complications. Luckily, they frequently allow for in-garden purchases so you don't even need to leave to get more fertilizer, etc. and the gardeners even get paid that way, no worries! they were even able to do away with the reference cards!
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

nudpiedo 4y ago

"We originally planned to let people rename the rows and columns with labels and implemented the feature. Eventually we decided that we needed to assure stable reference names so prevented people form moving into the zeroth row or column. Instead we implemented the ability to split the screen vertically or horizontally. " All the oposite from today's design in which they let people rename everything.

capableweb 4y ago
> All the oposite from today's design in which they let people rename everything. What spreadsheet program lets you rename a row or a column? The pattern I see all around is that you add your own column names as the first row for example, but the actual column doesn't get renamed. Or, you get to define your own "Named Ranges" where you can assign a name, but the row/column identifier stays the same. But I don't think I've seen any software allowing you to rename column C to whatever you want, for example.
- okennedy 4y ago
  Apple's Numbers has a relatively clever way to pull this off. If a cell (e.g., B:$2) is in a table with a column (or row) header, all formulas will use the header field value in the variable. e.g., = floor( [Strength:$Value] / 2 - 5, 1) These labels are purely descriptive. The underlying reference is still B:$2, but it makes formulas infinitely more readable without needing to manually define named ranges for everything. (Among many other nice features Numbers has... one of the few things I miss since my switch to Linux)

kamphey 4y ago

They'd been working/programming a decade! "By the time we created VisiCalc Dan and I had been working professional and academically for well over a decade." also I found this interesting. "The Apple's screen was 40 columns and 25 rows. " That's 1,000 cells. And now a modern Google Sheets starts with 26 columns and 1,000 rows. 26,000 cells. But also can go up to 10,000,000 cells!

WelcomeShorty 4y ago
The 40 by 25 are characters, not cells :) See: http://www.bricklin.com/history/refcard5.htm http://www.bricklin.com/history/refcard5.htm
another2another 4y ago
"I started to program VisiCalc in November 1978 and we shipped the first production copy in October 1979." Just one year. "In November of 1978 I started to prototype VisiCalc. We eventually shipped that prototype." Some things never change :)

dang 4y ago

Related: Implementing VisiCalc (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18703165 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18703165 - Dec 2018 (18 comments) Implementing VisiCalc (2003) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15889105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15889105 - Dec 2017 (1 comment) Implementing VisiCalc (2003) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15587048 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15587048 - Oct 2017 (17 comments) Also: VisiCalc Executable for the IBM PC (1999) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30928076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30928076 - April 2022 (53 comments) VisiCalc: Information from Its Creators, Dan Bricklin and Bob Frankston - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28229175 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28229175 - Aug 2021 (57 comments) VisiCalc's Spreadsheets Changed the World - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20197060 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20197060 - June 2019 (45 comments) Why a simple spreadsheet spread like wildfire - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10830686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10830686 - Jan 2016 (28 comments) How I got permission to post VisiCalc (1999) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10641297 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10641297 - Nov 2015 (2 comments) VisiCalc - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9257364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9257364 - March 2015 (7 comments) Why didn't we patent the spreadsheet? Were we stupid? (1999) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6418682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6418682 - Sept 2013 (135 comments) VisiCalc memories - the first Killer App - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=856365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=856365 - Oct 2009 (2 comments) VisiCalc: The 30th Anniversary - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=432091 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=432091 - Jan 2009 (8 comments) VisiCalc during the early days [w/pics] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=176783 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=176783 - April 2008 (3 comments) Why should a product want to be "the next VisiCalc"? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=169952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=169952 - April 2008 (1 comment)