4 ms·

The under-discussed benefits of learning how to learn

29 points by kvee 4y ago

travisjungroth 4y ago
> The holy grail of learning how to learn may be to tinker with our own learning-reward conditioning so that we literally become addicted to learning. Bolded in the article and I strongly disagree. This is how you become a learning addict [0], racking up successes that can be explained in LinkedIn headlines (first line of code to Google in 8 months, PhD) over things that are maybe more meaningful to you. I can’t put a holy grail of learning into a few words. I’d say being able to quickly pick up skills to proficiency that are useful to yourself and others is big. Being able to become exceptionally great is important (I’m not as good at this one). Knowing what to learn, what to not learn and when to stop are all critical as well. Maybe my favorite is developing a knack for transference, so your experiences don’t weigh you down (interference) but always help you. [0] That’s a tautology, but it’s true because tautologies are always true.
- mansoon 4y ago
  This might just be my personality disorders talking, but nothing is inherently meaningful.
  - travisjungroth 4y ago
    I already have hedges on both sides of the word by saying “maybe more meaningful to you”. I’d put another hedge above and below, but that would look weird.
- gausswho 4y ago
  Can you elaborate on transference/interference there? I'm familiar with it in the context of therapy, but I think you're talking about something somewhat different.
  - travisjungroth 4y ago
    I think it’s pretty different from therapy. Interference is when something you’ve learned before gets in the way. I drove a three wheeled mototaxi this week and nearly crashed the thing because I instinctually drove it like a motorcycle. Transference is when something you’ve learned helps. My time checking gear when climbing trees helped when I started scuba diving. These are the definitions I remember from studying for the FAA Fundamentals of Instruction exam one night 10 years ago, so maybe double check if you want to know more. Edit: and to try to add something besides the definitions. Interference is best avoided consciously. If I thought “how is this different from a motorcycle?” I would have known to avoid countersteering. Transference is best done unconsciously. Wait to say “this is just like X” until you actually get the hang of it. You’ll run into interference otherwise. Better to sort of have it be like you’re some gifted natural when you actually just have done something with good overlap before. Don’t act like you already know it. Just let yourself learn fast.
    - gausswho 4y ago
      That's very different theory than what I was anticipating. I feel that I have internalized a similar concept in my learning from a very young age. It intuitively makes sense, but can be easy to slip out of particularly if I'm not in an optimal mood. My inconsistency might be mitigated from a deeper reflection around a framework on when to recognize that we might be in interference with ourselves. Scuba is one I have some experience with and can relate to, but I think can serve as both a good example and a counter-example. It is an area where meticulous review of your conditions before getting in the water is crucial. Your intuitions from other pursuits overlap with these checks, but they can also lead you dangerously astray in uncommon situations (nitrogen narcosis, disorientation, and other ways where our instincts above the surface are orthogonal to what happens under water). How do we determine when our transference can unconsciously be relied upon? I'd like to learn more if have any further resources on it.
      - travisjungroth 4y ago
        This article isn’t explicitly about that but it overlaps: https://commoncog.com/tacit-knowledge-is-a-real-thing/ https://commoncog.com/tacit-knowledge-is-a-real-thing/ HN convo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29531947 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29531947 Here’s the FAA’s Aviation Instructor’s Handbook. It’s not peak pedagogy but I liked it. https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/aviation_instructors_handbook https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/a... The Gleim FOI test prep would be a condensed version. You could probably get an old version dirt cheap. https://www.gleimaviation.com/shop/foi/ https://www.gleimaviation.com/shop/foi/
mjklin 4y ago
“Once you have learned to ask questions – relevant and appropriate and substantial questions – you have learned how to learn and no one can keep you from learning whatever you want or need to know.” - Neil Postman “In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists.” - Eric Hoffer
- gausswho 4y ago
  The Neil Postman quote resonates with me for how I learned Spanish. I moved to Buenos Aires and took three weeks of intensive formal education and would have gone longer were it not for the fact that I had built up a sufficient enough understanding to be able to ask locals questions (and mostly understand their responses). I'd go out to cafes and clubs with locals. It was fun and rewarding, even if I'd sometimes be out of the loop at times. I realized I was learning faster this way than the school was providing and so ended the classes. I realized that at some point I still needed to return to classes for the more advanced grammar, but that came after over a year of building out my vocabulary and confidence the informal conversational way.
semireg 4y ago
I half heartedly believe that the point of college is to learn how to cope with feeling stupid. You must learn that learning is uncomfortable. The pattern of reinforcement is similar to exercise. New abilities increase motivation. You see it mentally and physically. Explore (with a child’s mind) & Exploit (as an adult). Reference: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/16/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-alison-gopnik.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/16/opinion/ezra-klein-podcas...
ramblerman 4y ago
> We focus on knowledge deficits rather than celebrating development That hit me hard. I've made leaps and bounds in my understanding of neural nets in the last six months, but all I think about is the math I don't know.
nvln 4y ago
Reminds me of this letter from Kurt Vonnegut in his twilight years: "What I had to say to you, moreover, would not take long, to wit: Practice any art, music, singing, dancing, acting, drawing, painting, sculpting, poetry, fiction, essays, reportage, no matter how well or badly, not to get money and fame, but to experience becoming, to find out what’s inside you, to make your soul grow. Seriously! I mean starting right now, do art and do it for the rest of your lives. Draw a funny or nice picture of Ms. Lockwood, and give it to her. Dance home after school, and sing in the shower and on and on. Make a face in your mashed potatoes. Pretend you’re Count Dracula. Here’s an assignment for tonight, and I hope Ms. Lockwood will flunk you if you don’t do it: Write a six line poem, about anything, but rhymed. No fair tennis without a net. Make it as good as you possibly can. But don’t tell anybody what you’re doing. Don’t show it or recite it to anybody, not even your girlfriend or parents or whatever, or Ms. Lockwood. OK? Tear it up into teeny-weeny pieces, and discard them into widely separated trash recepticals. You will find that you have already been gloriously rewarded for your poem. You have experienced becoming, learned a lot more about what’s inside you, and you have made your soul grow."

29 points by kvee 4y ago

> The holy grail of learning how to learn may be to tinker with our own learning-reward conditioning so that we literally become addicted to learning. Bolded in the article and I strongly disagree. This is how you become a learning addict [0], racking up successes that can be explained in LinkedIn headlines (first line of code to Google in 8 months, PhD) over things that are maybe more meaningful to you. I can’t put a holy grail of learning into a few words. I’d say being able to quickly pick up skills to proficiency that are useful to yourself and others is big. Being able to become exceptionally great is important (I’m not as good at this one). Knowing what to learn, what to not learn and when to stop are all critical as well. Maybe my favorite is developing a knack for transference, so your experiences don’t weigh you down (interference) but always help you. [0] That’s a tautology, but it’s true because tautologies are always true.

mansoon 4y ago
This might just be my personality disorders talking, but nothing is inherently meaningful.
- travisjungroth 4y ago
  I already have hedges on both sides of the word by saying “maybe more meaningful to you”. I’d put another hedge above and below, but that would look weird.
gausswho 4y ago
Can you elaborate on transference/interference there? I'm familiar with it in the context of therapy, but I think you're talking about something somewhat different.
- travisjungroth 4y ago
  I think it’s pretty different from therapy. Interference is when something you’ve learned before gets in the way. I drove a three wheeled mototaxi this week and nearly crashed the thing because I instinctually drove it like a motorcycle. Transference is when something you’ve learned helps. My time checking gear when climbing trees helped when I started scuba diving. These are the definitions I remember from studying for the FAA Fundamentals of Instruction exam one night 10 years ago, so maybe double check if you want to know more. Edit: and to try to add something besides the definitions. Interference is best avoided consciously. If I thought “how is this different from a motorcycle?” I would have known to avoid countersteering. Transference is best done unconsciously. Wait to say “this is just like X” until you actually get the hang of it. You’ll run into interference otherwise. Better to sort of have it be like you’re some gifted natural when you actually just have done something with good overlap before. Don’t act like you already know it. Just let yourself learn fast.
  - gausswho 4y ago
    That's very different theory than what I was anticipating. I feel that I have internalized a similar concept in my learning from a very young age. It intuitively makes sense, but can be easy to slip out of particularly if I'm not in an optimal mood. My inconsistency might be mitigated from a deeper reflection around a framework on when to recognize that we might be in interference with ourselves. Scuba is one I have some experience with and can relate to, but I think can serve as both a good example and a counter-example. It is an area where meticulous review of your conditions before getting in the water is crucial. Your intuitions from other pursuits overlap with these checks, but they can also lead you dangerously astray in uncommon situations (nitrogen narcosis, disorientation, and other ways where our instincts above the surface are orthogonal to what happens under water). How do we determine when our transference can unconsciously be relied upon? I'd like to learn more if have any further resources on it.
    - travisjungroth 4y ago
      This article isn’t explicitly about that but it overlaps: https://commoncog.com/tacit-knowledge-is-a-real-thing/ https://commoncog.com/tacit-knowledge-is-a-real-thing/ HN convo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29531947 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29531947 Here’s the FAA’s Aviation Instructor’s Handbook. It’s not peak pedagogy but I liked it. https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/aviation_instructors_handbook https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/a... The Gleim FOI test prep would be a condensed version. You could probably get an old version dirt cheap. https://www.gleimaviation.com/shop/foi/ https://www.gleimaviation.com/shop/foi/

mjklin 4y ago

“Once you have learned to ask questions – relevant and appropriate and substantial questions – you have learned how to learn and no one can keep you from learning whatever you want or need to know.” - Neil Postman “In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists.” - Eric Hoffer

gausswho 4y ago
The Neil Postman quote resonates with me for how I learned Spanish. I moved to Buenos Aires and took three weeks of intensive formal education and would have gone longer were it not for the fact that I had built up a sufficient enough understanding to be able to ask locals questions (and mostly understand their responses). I'd go out to cafes and clubs with locals. It was fun and rewarding, even if I'd sometimes be out of the loop at times. I realized I was learning faster this way than the school was providing and so ended the classes. I realized that at some point I still needed to return to classes for the more advanced grammar, but that came after over a year of building out my vocabulary and confidence the informal conversational way.

semireg 4y ago

I half heartedly believe that the point of college is to learn how to cope with feeling stupid. You must learn that learning is uncomfortable. The pattern of reinforcement is similar to exercise. New abilities increase motivation. You see it mentally and physically. Explore (with a child’s mind) & Exploit (as an adult). Reference: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/16/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-alison-gopnik.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/16/opinion/ezra-klein-podcas...

ramblerman 4y ago

> We focus on knowledge deficits rather than celebrating development That hit me hard. I've made leaps and bounds in my understanding of neural nets in the last six months, but all I think about is the math I don't know.

nvln 4y ago

Reminds me of this letter from Kurt Vonnegut in his twilight years: "What I had to say to you, moreover, would not take long, to wit: Practice any art, music, singing, dancing, acting, drawing, painting, sculpting, poetry, fiction, essays, reportage, no matter how well or badly, not to get money and fame, but to experience becoming, to find out what’s inside you, to make your soul grow. Seriously! I mean starting right now, do art and do it for the rest of your lives. Draw a funny or nice picture of Ms. Lockwood, and give it to her. Dance home after school, and sing in the shower and on and on. Make a face in your mashed potatoes. Pretend you’re Count Dracula. Here’s an assignment for tonight, and I hope Ms. Lockwood will flunk you if you don’t do it: Write a six line poem, about anything, but rhymed. No fair tennis without a net. Make it as good as you possibly can. But don’t tell anybody what you’re doing. Don’t show it or recite it to anybody, not even your girlfriend or parents or whatever, or Ms. Lockwood. OK? Tear it up into teeny-weeny pieces, and discard them into widely separated trash recepticals. You will find that you have already been gloriously rewarded for your poem. You have experienced becoming, learned a lot more about what’s inside you, and you have made your soul grow."