6 ms·

Ask HN: How do you install not the latest iOS version?

I would like to change the minimum deployment target of my iOS app and update my testing device from iOS 13 to 14 (instead of 16). How do other iOS developers handle it? I really don't want to rely on the iOS simulator.

mensetmanusman 4y ago
“One does not _simply_ not install the latest iOS” -Boromir Biggest flaw of iOS in my experience, I have lost over $1000 in apps not operable due to iOS updates. The apps work fine on my older iOS version devices which have since died due to battery issues.
- Sunspark 4y ago
  You could have a new battery installed.
  - SwiftyBug 4y ago
    I can't. The screw won't come out. I've tried two different repair shops and none of them were able to remove one of the bottom screws to open the phone.
    - willcipriano 4y ago
      That's screwed up.
    - jrowley 4y ago
      If you really wanted to you could probably use a small drill bit and drill the screw out and then only use a single screw to secure the screen to the body.
    - dmitrygr 4y ago
      Screws can be carefully drilled out. Yes I’ve done this. Yes on an iPhone. Yes it ended happily.
    - justsomehnguy 4y ago
      Repair shops just didn't want to bother. Find the one who with a dremel and people actually wanting your money.
    - Fatnino 4y ago
      I've had to drill out a screw on a nexus 6 at home. That damn phone had somewhere north of 20 screws holding the back together. One got stripped and I drilled into it till the head came off and it was a post instead of a screw from then on.
- KoftaBob 4y ago
  I'm curious how you managed to spend $1000 on apps?
  - BOOSTERHIDROGEN 4y ago
    Enterprise
    - KoftaBob 4y ago
      I was under the impression the vast majority of enterprise software is either on a subscription, or you pay for it through their dashboard and then install the app, especially if the alternative means Apple takes a 30% cut.
  - phonescreen_man 4y ago
    Big app etite!
  - executive 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Rich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Rich
    - mensetmanusman 4y ago
      Ha, I hope there is a museum in 100 years that has the original iphone with that app installed and running continuously until the end of time.
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    There were some >800$ sound monitoring apps to do FFT analysis and data output.
- dangus 4y ago
  I think it’s interesting how software has longevity expectations from some customers that physical products don’t have. How long is a dinner or drinks supposed to last before you buy another one? How long is your house supposed to last before you need to make repairs? How long is gasoline supposed to last before you buy more? Vacation? Movie tickets? Hotel rooms? Flights? Appliances? Clothes? Shoes? Furniture? Maybe ~10% of the things we buy can be “buy it for life” items. It seems like a lot of people want more longevity out of software than simple physical objects. Smartphones weren’t exactly mature 7-10 years ago and we all knew that. If it were me I’d just accept that I spent $1000 on software and got something out of it for the time being. Life is full of things that are fleeting.
  - friendlyHornet 4y ago
    These really aren't comparable, and I try to squeeze as much life from my device as possible Side note: I lived in an apartment in a 400 year old building once, and once lived in a shared house that was 300 years old (both cases were in Germany). Both buildings were renovated and had repairs several times and in a very good condition, and living in them was a great pleasure.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    Are software consumables like food and gasoline? Do you throw away your entire house after 5 years? What about your books? Movies? Music? Photos? Art? You can take a 20 year old+ copy of Windows software that shipped on a CD-ROM in a paper box and it'll probably work just fine on Windows 10, maybe it needs some compatibility setting checked or absolute worst case an XP or 2000 VM. Meanwhile what do you do with an 8 year old iOS app? Hunt down old devices on eBay that you hope you can get working?
    - scarface74 4y ago
      And can I run old Windows CE apps built on .Net Compact Framework on the latest greatest Microsoft produced phones?
- theshrike79 4y ago
  So you have apps that you paid real money for, but they haven't been updated in at least half a decade? Isn't it worrying that the developer doesn't care enough to check out their code, compile and resubmit?
  - pifm_guy 4y ago
    As a developer, I can tell you it usually isn't that simple. The vast majority of 10+ year old apps wouldn't compile with modern xcode, and even if they did they won't meet the stores requirements anymore. For a small app with a small userbase, the maintainance cost isnt worth it.
    - theshrike79 4y ago
      Yea, of course it you update it once in 10 years it's a huge chore. But if you have an app that people actually pay money for, I think it's bad business to not spend the few hours a year to update it to the latest XCode. And if you don't care, just delist it from the store so people don't buy your abandonware.
  - ls15 4y ago
    Many developers care enough to create an updated version ("v2") that users have to buy in order to use the app again.
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    These apps worked fine, and were for specific types of measurements. They weren’t broken, they were finished. Apple just pulled the rug. Actually, everyone benefits except the consumers when this happens, because push comes to shove, they will just release a new one with the same price or as a SAAS. I totally see the benefit of windows in these situations.
drewbitt 4y ago
You cannot on real hardware; Apple stops signing old OSes and there’s nothing you can do. Even recent jailbreaks haven’t gotten around this. You can extend the signing period a bit by using delayOTA https://dhinakg.github.io/delayed-otas.html https://dhinakg.github.io/delayed-otas.html
mobilio 4y ago
Using few devices with old iOS. I'm currently running one device on 14.8.1, other on 15.X and third on latest.
TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
One way to work around Apple forcing you to upgrade to the latest version is to buy older devices that are no longer supported. The iPhone 7 for example can't be upgraded past iOS 15. Unfortunately for this strategy, Apple tend to drop support for several devices at once, so there's no device whose final version is iOS 14, for example. With that said, if you're desperate, you could get new-in-box old devices, assuming those devices can still be activated (not all can).
teetertater 4y ago
Impossible from ios13->14 if you haven’t downloaded blobs already, and 14 isn’t being signed. The best you can do at the moment is to jailbreak and use futurerestore to go to slightly lower ios 16 beta versions
saagarjha 4y ago
That’s the neat part, you don’t. (Memes aside, keep old devices around and never update them. And while not useful to you something like Corellium can be useful to check things in a pinch.)
xuki 4y ago
I know it’s not directly relevant, but maybe consider dropping iOs 14. All devices that can run iOS 14 can also run iOS 15, and it’s much easier to find devices that run iOS 15 to test with. Any iPhone 6s, SE or 7 will do.
bakugo 4y ago
You ask Apple for permission to do it because they are the owners of the device, not you. Their answer is no, and that's the end of that.
scarface74 4y ago
For reference, 90% of iOS users are on at least 15.5 https://gs.statcounter.com/ios-version-market-share/all/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/ios-version-market-share/all/unit... How many users are actually on iOS 14 since every device that can run iOS 14 can run iOS 15?
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  which is both a triumph and a tragedy
- The_SamminAter 4y ago
  I’d say a good majority of the jailbreak community is still on iOS 14. Although XinaA15 and *ra1n allow people to jailbreak (on limited versions for the former) iOS 15, fakeroot (and more-so XinaA15’s jankyness) mean that if you’re looking for a stable, compatible jailbreak, iOS 14.x is the way to go.
xkcd-sucks 4y ago
You can get an old device, wait until it fills up with caches/logs/other opaque data that just can't be deleted for whatever reason, and updates will fail due to insufficient free space. Or just download a large file to the same effect probably
secretsatan 4y ago
Probably a bit late, but I think if you want to preserve an iOS version before updating, you have to back it up with the sync tool. At least that is how you do it when installing beta versions and want to rollback, if you don't have the backup, you're out of luck. the Simulator has improved a lot over recent years I've found. We couldn't use it for ages as accessing metal would cause it to crash, I noticed late last year this no longer happens, making it a viable solution for us again.

mensetmanusman 4y ago

“One does not _simply_ not install the latest iOS” -Boromir Biggest flaw of iOS in my experience, I have lost over $1000 in apps not operable due to iOS updates. The apps work fine on my older iOS version devices which have since died due to battery issues.

Sunspark 4y ago
You could have a new battery installed.
- SwiftyBug 4y ago
  I can't. The screw won't come out. I've tried two different repair shops and none of them were able to remove one of the bottom screws to open the phone.
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    That's screwed up.
  - jrowley 4y ago
    If you really wanted to you could probably use a small drill bit and drill the screw out and then only use a single screw to secure the screen to the body.
  - dmitrygr 4y ago
    Screws can be carefully drilled out. Yes I’ve done this. Yes on an iPhone. Yes it ended happily.
  - justsomehnguy 4y ago
    Repair shops just didn't want to bother. Find the one who with a dremel and people actually wanting your money.
  - Fatnino 4y ago
    I've had to drill out a screw on a nexus 6 at home. That damn phone had somewhere north of 20 screws holding the back together. One got stripped and I drilled into it till the head came off and it was a post instead of a screw from then on.
KoftaBob 4y ago
I'm curious how you managed to spend $1000 on apps?
- BOOSTERHIDROGEN 4y ago
  Enterprise
  - KoftaBob 4y ago
    I was under the impression the vast majority of enterprise software is either on a subscription, or you pay for it through their dashboard and then install the app, especially if the alternative means Apple takes a 30% cut.
- phonescreen_man 4y ago
  Big app etite!
- executive 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Rich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Rich
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    Ha, I hope there is a museum in 100 years that has the original iphone with that app installed and running continuously until the end of time.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  There were some >800$ sound monitoring apps to do FFT analysis and data output.
dangus 4y ago
I think it’s interesting how software has longevity expectations from some customers that physical products don’t have. How long is a dinner or drinks supposed to last before you buy another one? How long is your house supposed to last before you need to make repairs? How long is gasoline supposed to last before you buy more? Vacation? Movie tickets? Hotel rooms? Flights? Appliances? Clothes? Shoes? Furniture? Maybe ~10% of the things we buy can be “buy it for life” items. It seems like a lot of people want more longevity out of software than simple physical objects. Smartphones weren’t exactly mature 7-10 years ago and we all knew that. If it were me I’d just accept that I spent $1000 on software and got something out of it for the time being. Life is full of things that are fleeting.
- friendlyHornet 4y ago
  These really aren't comparable, and I try to squeeze as much life from my device as possible Side note: I lived in an apartment in a 400 year old building once, and once lived in a shared house that was 300 years old (both cases were in Germany). Both buildings were renovated and had repairs several times and in a very good condition, and living in them was a great pleasure.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- goosedragons 4y ago
  Are software consumables like food and gasoline? Do you throw away your entire house after 5 years? What about your books? Movies? Music? Photos? Art? You can take a 20 year old+ copy of Windows software that shipped on a CD-ROM in a paper box and it'll probably work just fine on Windows 10, maybe it needs some compatibility setting checked or absolute worst case an XP or 2000 VM. Meanwhile what do you do with an 8 year old iOS app? Hunt down old devices on eBay that you hope you can get working?
  - scarface74 4y ago
    And can I run old Windows CE apps built on .Net Compact Framework on the latest greatest Microsoft produced phones?
theshrike79 4y ago
So you have apps that you paid real money for, but they haven't been updated in at least half a decade? Isn't it worrying that the developer doesn't care enough to check out their code, compile and resubmit?
- pifm_guy 4y ago
  As a developer, I can tell you it usually isn't that simple. The vast majority of 10+ year old apps wouldn't compile with modern xcode, and even if they did they won't meet the stores requirements anymore. For a small app with a small userbase, the maintainance cost isnt worth it.
  - theshrike79 4y ago
    Yea, of course it you update it once in 10 years it's a huge chore. But if you have an app that people actually pay money for, I think it's bad business to not spend the few hours a year to update it to the latest XCode. And if you don't care, just delist it from the store so people don't buy your abandonware.
- ls15 4y ago
  Many developers care enough to create an updated version ("v2") that users have to buy in order to use the app again.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  These apps worked fine, and were for specific types of measurements. They weren’t broken, they were finished. Apple just pulled the rug. Actually, everyone benefits except the consumers when this happens, because push comes to shove, they will just release a new one with the same price or as a SAAS. I totally see the benefit of windows in these situations.

drewbitt 4y ago

You cannot on real hardware; Apple stops signing old OSes and there’s nothing you can do. Even recent jailbreaks haven’t gotten around this. You can extend the signing period a bit by using delayOTA https://dhinakg.github.io/delayed-otas.html https://dhinakg.github.io/delayed-otas.html

mobilio 4y ago

Using few devices with old iOS. I'm currently running one device on 14.8.1, other on 15.X and third on latest.

TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago

One way to work around Apple forcing you to upgrade to the latest version is to buy older devices that are no longer supported. The iPhone 7 for example can't be upgraded past iOS 15. Unfortunately for this strategy, Apple tend to drop support for several devices at once, so there's no device whose final version is iOS 14, for example. With that said, if you're desperate, you could get new-in-box old devices, assuming those devices can still be activated (not all can).

teetertater 4y ago

Impossible from ios13->14 if you haven’t downloaded blobs already, and 14 isn’t being signed. The best you can do at the moment is to jailbreak and use futurerestore to go to slightly lower ios 16 beta versions

saagarjha 4y ago

That’s the neat part, you don’t. (Memes aside, keep old devices around and never update them. And while not useful to you something like Corellium can be useful to check things in a pinch.)

xuki 4y ago

I know it’s not directly relevant, but maybe consider dropping iOs 14. All devices that can run iOS 14 can also run iOS 15, and it’s much easier to find devices that run iOS 15 to test with. Any iPhone 6s, SE or 7 will do.

bakugo 4y ago

You ask Apple for permission to do it because they are the owners of the device, not you. Their answer is no, and that's the end of that.

scarface74 4y ago

For reference, 90% of iOS users are on at least 15.5 https://gs.statcounter.com/ios-version-market-share/all/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/ios-version-market-share/all/unit... How many users are actually on iOS 14 since every device that can run iOS 14 can run iOS 15?

stjohnswarts 4y ago
which is both a triumph and a tragedy
The_SamminAter 4y ago
I’d say a good majority of the jailbreak community is still on iOS 14. Although XinaA15 and *ra1n allow people to jailbreak (on limited versions for the former) iOS 15, fakeroot (and more-so XinaA15’s jankyness) mean that if you’re looking for a stable, compatible jailbreak, iOS 14.x is the way to go.

xkcd-sucks 4y ago

You can get an old device, wait until it fills up with caches/logs/other opaque data that just can't be deleted for whatever reason, and updates will fail due to insufficient free space. Or just download a large file to the same effect probably

secretsatan 4y ago

Probably a bit late, but I think if you want to preserve an iOS version before updating, you have to back it up with the sync tool. At least that is how you do it when installing beta versions and want to rollback, if you don't have the backup, you're out of luck. the Simulator has improved a lot over recent years I've found. We couldn't use it for ages as accessing metal would cause it to crash, I noticed late last year this no longer happens, making it a viable solution for us again.