4 ms·

What can be a crime? If you’re in a public space (and not the legal definition of public —- a mall is considered a public space despite being privately owned) y

What can be a crime? If you’re in a public space (and not the legal definition of public —- a mall is considered a public space despite being privately owned) you have no legal expectation of privacy. Period. End of story. There are very good reasons for this, despite the fact in creative tiktokers are definitely exercising the bounds of the law. Of course if the content somehow slanders or misrepresents someone, that’s another issue.

pronlover723 4y ago
I tend to agree with your POV but as a counterpoint, in Japan it's against the law to film people in public without their permission. A shot of a crowd is unlikely to get you in trouble, and in fact, a shot taken without permission but that the person you took it of never finds out is unlikely to get you in trouble (although that's the same for shoplifting) But, it is the law there and it is often enforced. As an example you can find public exhibitions with signs up "no photography". You'll even find these signs at trade shows at many booths where you'd expect the entire point is to show off to the public. The point is, different cultures have different feelings about this. IIUC, it was Japan that made Google Maps remove faces from streetview.
dahart 4y ago
Not sure why this is getting downvoted, I believe it’s correct for the U.S. Reminds me of the famous “Photographer’s Rights” pamphlet http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf and there definitely are people out there making confrontation videos with security guards and police for YouTube based on knowing they can’t legally be stopped for shooting in public. It might be lame, but it is legal.
- darekkay 4y ago
  > Not sure why this is getting downvoted, I believe it’s correct for the U.S. That's the problem: A US-centric "end of story, period" generalization. In general, you are not allowed to take pictures of other people in public without their consent in Germany and many other countries.
  - pixl97 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - lxgr 4y ago
    As far as I know, taking somebody‘s photograph or video in a public space in Germany is legal, you just can‘t publish it without their permission.
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      What if you go to the roof of a building and take a photo of a crowd on the street below? Do you need to get everyone's permission to publish that? What if you can't even recognize their faces from that distance? This law seems impractical, unless there's exceptions noted in the text of the law itself.
      - lxgr 4y ago
        Crowds and persons insignificant/incidental to the image composition, as well as "newsworthy events" (e.g. a politician speaking in their function) are mostly exempt, so all of these examples are not a problem, practically.
        midoridensha 4y ago
        That sounds far more reasonable than the original claim.
        lxgr 4y ago
        Given that the parent was claiming that you're not even allowed to take a photo of somebody in public in Germany, I think the salient point here is "you actually can, unless you publish it", and it's less relevant that you can also publish it in many of these cases.
    - darekkay 4y ago
      I didn't want to get into details, but in general: no, photographing a person in public without consent is not allowed in Germany. It's called "Recht am eigenen Bild" = rights for my own picture. Now there are many exceptions of course: crowds, prominent people, journalism, etc. Also, if someone looks into your camera and smiles, this is considered a consent. All this is about taking a picture, publishing is a separate matter.
giantg2 4y ago
Filming in a public space can be a crime. Try filming in a courtroom. There are also laws against filming upskirt, full or partial nudity even if in a public setting, etc in my state and in similar states. Since you brought up privately owned but open to the public spaces, owners can set their own rules and ask you to leave if you violate them. The point is, circumstances matter. This isn't an absolute right and has some restrictions to it (as do pretty much all rights it seems).
tacotacotaco 4y ago
How about some respect for the strangers that also have a right to use the shared public space. Is it really too much to get consent before they start recording?
- dclowd9901 4y ago
  What about those being arrested by police? Don’t they have an expectation of privacy? We should ban public image capture of police arrests. You can see how quickly things get muddy if we start making distinctions.
karencarits 4y ago
We must also distinguish between recording and publicizing. At least in Norway, it is legal to take photos of strangers (as long as you don't harass or scare anyone), but you dare not free to share them publicly without consent. There are exceptions, of course, such as noteworthy events, crowds, and things that it is in the public's benefit to see, but otherwise, you must be careful For example, street photography is kind of a grey area, I don't think it has ever been brought to court
anigbrowl 4y ago
If you’re in a public space (and not the legal definition of public [...] you have no legal expectation of privacy. Period. End of story. Wrong (as so often with people who assert things like 'period. end of story.') *photography is permitted in public spaces, you don't have a right to not be photographed in public. but in many jurisdictions, including California, recording other people's conversations requires consent from all participants in the conversation. Doing so covertly is treated as equivalent to wiretapping and is a crime, as well as exposing you to civil liability. Laws on this vary by state. Here's a brief explainer on California's laws, with reference to relevant statutes and court cases: https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/california-recording-law https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/california-recording-law
- dclowd9901 4y ago
  You’re right, I wrote too broadly but I was speaking specifically to being photographed and speaking specifically to US legal precedent on the matter.

pronlover723 4y ago

I tend to agree with your POV but as a counterpoint, in Japan it's against the law to film people in public without their permission. A shot of a crowd is unlikely to get you in trouble, and in fact, a shot taken without permission but that the person you took it of never finds out is unlikely to get you in trouble (although that's the same for shoplifting) But, it is the law there and it is often enforced. As an example you can find public exhibitions with signs up "no photography". You'll even find these signs at trade shows at many booths where you'd expect the entire point is to show off to the public. The point is, different cultures have different feelings about this. IIUC, it was Japan that made Google Maps remove faces from streetview.

dahart 4y ago

Not sure why this is getting downvoted, I believe it’s correct for the U.S. Reminds me of the famous “Photographer’s Rights” pamphlet http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf and there definitely are people out there making confrontation videos with security guards and police for YouTube based on knowing they can’t legally be stopped for shooting in public. It might be lame, but it is legal.

darekkay 4y ago
> Not sure why this is getting downvoted, I believe it’s correct for the U.S. That's the problem: A US-centric "end of story, period" generalization. In general, you are not allowed to take pictures of other people in public without their consent in Germany and many other countries.
- pixl97 4y ago
  [flagged]
- lxgr 4y ago
  As far as I know, taking somebody‘s photograph or video in a public space in Germany is legal, you just can‘t publish it without their permission.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    What if you go to the roof of a building and take a photo of a crowd on the street below? Do you need to get everyone's permission to publish that? What if you can't even recognize their faces from that distance? This law seems impractical, unless there's exceptions noted in the text of the law itself.
    - lxgr 4y ago
      Crowds and persons insignificant/incidental to the image composition, as well as "newsworthy events" (e.g. a politician speaking in their function) are mostly exempt, so all of these examples are not a problem, practically.
      - midoridensha 4y ago
        That sounds far more reasonable than the original claim.
        lxgr 4y ago
        Given that the parent was claiming that you're not even allowed to take a photo of somebody in public in Germany, I think the salient point here is "you actually can, unless you publish it", and it's less relevant that you can also publish it in many of these cases.
  - darekkay 4y ago
    I didn't want to get into details, but in general: no, photographing a person in public without consent is not allowed in Germany. It's called "Recht am eigenen Bild" = rights for my own picture. Now there are many exceptions of course: crowds, prominent people, journalism, etc. Also, if someone looks into your camera and smiles, this is considered a consent. All this is about taking a picture, publishing is a separate matter.

giantg2 4y ago

Filming in a public space can be a crime. Try filming in a courtroom. There are also laws against filming upskirt, full or partial nudity even if in a public setting, etc in my state and in similar states. Since you brought up privately owned but open to the public spaces, owners can set their own rules and ask you to leave if you violate them. The point is, circumstances matter. This isn't an absolute right and has some restrictions to it (as do pretty much all rights it seems).

tacotacotaco 4y ago

How about some respect for the strangers that also have a right to use the shared public space. Is it really too much to get consent before they start recording?

dclowd9901 4y ago
What about those being arrested by police? Don’t they have an expectation of privacy? We should ban public image capture of police arrests. You can see how quickly things get muddy if we start making distinctions.

karencarits 4y ago

We must also distinguish between recording and publicizing. At least in Norway, it is legal to take photos of strangers (as long as you don't harass or scare anyone), but you dare not free to share them publicly without consent. There are exceptions, of course, such as noteworthy events, crowds, and things that it is in the public's benefit to see, but otherwise, you must be careful For example, street photography is kind of a grey area, I don't think it has ever been brought to court

anigbrowl 4y ago

If you’re in a public space (and not the legal definition of public [...] you have no legal expectation of privacy. Period. End of story. Wrong (as so often with people who assert things like 'period. end of story.') *photography is permitted in public spaces, you don't have a right to not be photographed in public. but in many jurisdictions, including California, recording other people's conversations requires consent from all participants in the conversation. Doing so covertly is treated as equivalent to wiretapping and is a crime, as well as exposing you to civil liability. Laws on this vary by state. Here's a brief explainer on California's laws, with reference to relevant statutes and court cases: https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/california-recording-law https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/california-recording-law

dclowd9901 4y ago
You’re right, I wrote too broadly but I was speaking specifically to being photographed and speaking specifically to US legal precedent on the matter.