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Instead of price history look at utility history: It’s never been anything other than a speculative asset or a temporary medium of exchange for criminals. There

by eli 4y ago

Instead of price history look at utility history: It’s never been anything other than a speculative asset or a temporary medium of exchange for criminals. There’s no future here. Future returns on BTC cannot be compared to the S&P!

broast 4y ago
Is there currently new and previously not knowable information regarding its utility compared to when the price was going up?
- eli 4y ago
  No, it’s never been particularly useful. Do you believe a popular pyramid scheme has demonstrated utility? If a pyramid scheme made people a lot of money in the past does that suggest it has long term value?
  - broast 4y ago
    People similarly argue that stocks are a pyramid scheme but that doesn't stop them from existing.
    - andirk 4y ago
      You got a nice lil dvote from our HN friends because you spoke negatively about stonks (they like stonks a lot!) and neutral about bitcoin (they HATE bitcoin! Mostly out of jealousy). I don't think either is a pyramid scheme but both often trade at inflated valuations.
  - andirk 4y ago
    Replace "pyramid scheme" with "stock" and the argument still stands and is actually relevant to bitcoin. Can you please explain how bitcoin is a pyramid scheme? You can say Ponzi scheme or scam or just hate it because you haven't gained anything from it personally and wish you did when you first heard about it at $5, but pyramid scheme it is not. Thanks.
scotty79 4y ago
So you don't believe that scarcity can capture and hold any value? Only utility can do that?
- lanstin 4y ago
  Isn’t scarcity relative to demand? I mean each cubic meter of soil is globally unique, but no one cares. And, in the long term, demand plausibly has a relation to utility? I do speculate that part of the appeal of a non-loan/investment based store of value to very rich people is that hey wish they could keep all their wealth in a vehicle that didn’t involve investing in the overall good of society, but that is a childish wish - wealth is inextricably linked with the prosperity of the society in which it is enmeshed. A billionaire in a society ravaged by disease, hunger, and conflict, shorn of the comforts of science and technology, will be poorer by far, in terms of objective measures, than a billionaire in a society where the people are educated and science and medicine are widely available, especially over he generations.
  - scotty79 4y ago
    It's related to the demand. That's why unique things might not be scarce especially when there's a lot similar things. That's why NFTs are not scarce even though they are unique. Personally I would also wish that billionaires kept their wealth in things unrelated to the real world. Because when they put it in the real world they hike up the price for everybody by creating illusion of demand that really isn't there because they won't use what they bought.
- this_user 4y ago
  This because something is scarce, doesn't make it valuable. Claims to the contrary are just another example of crypto bros not understanding economics or human behaviour. Otherwise, a whole bunch of people with boxes of Beaning Babies would be rich by now.
  - scotty79 4y ago
    Were beanie babies truely scarce? The way Rambrant paintings are?
wmf 4y ago
Gold is also speculative and it's much larger than BTC. I hate crypto but $100K BTC is completely possible.
- eli 4y ago
  Anything’s possible but gold is useful and has intrinsic value. Bitcoin isn’t very similar. I don’t think one implies anything about the other.
  - mancerayder 4y ago
    Gold used for jewelry or industrials is a fraction of the overall yearly production of gold though. So it's mostly used as speculative instrument to store value (assuming this sentence is allowed with those two clauses together).
  - andirk 4y ago
    Gold is by far mostly used as a store of value. Bitcoin is by far mostly used as a store of value. Next.

by eli 4y ago

broast 4y ago

Is there currently new and previously not knowable information regarding its utility compared to when the price was going up?

eli 4y ago
No, it’s never been particularly useful. Do you believe a popular pyramid scheme has demonstrated utility? If a pyramid scheme made people a lot of money in the past does that suggest it has long term value?
- broast 4y ago
  People similarly argue that stocks are a pyramid scheme but that doesn't stop them from existing.
  - andirk 4y ago
    You got a nice lil dvote from our HN friends because you spoke negatively about stonks (they like stonks a lot!) and neutral about bitcoin (they HATE bitcoin! Mostly out of jealousy). I don't think either is a pyramid scheme but both often trade at inflated valuations.
- andirk 4y ago
  Replace "pyramid scheme" with "stock" and the argument still stands and is actually relevant to bitcoin. Can you please explain how bitcoin is a pyramid scheme? You can say Ponzi scheme or scam or just hate it because you haven't gained anything from it personally and wish you did when you first heard about it at $5, but pyramid scheme it is not. Thanks.

scotty79 4y ago

So you don't believe that scarcity can capture and hold any value? Only utility can do that?

lanstin 4y ago
Isn’t scarcity relative to demand? I mean each cubic meter of soil is globally unique, but no one cares. And, in the long term, demand plausibly has a relation to utility? I do speculate that part of the appeal of a non-loan/investment based store of value to very rich people is that hey wish they could keep all their wealth in a vehicle that didn’t involve investing in the overall good of society, but that is a childish wish - wealth is inextricably linked with the prosperity of the society in which it is enmeshed. A billionaire in a society ravaged by disease, hunger, and conflict, shorn of the comforts of science and technology, will be poorer by far, in terms of objective measures, than a billionaire in a society where the people are educated and science and medicine are widely available, especially over he generations.
- scotty79 4y ago
  It's related to the demand. That's why unique things might not be scarce especially when there's a lot similar things. That's why NFTs are not scarce even though they are unique. Personally I would also wish that billionaires kept their wealth in things unrelated to the real world. Because when they put it in the real world they hike up the price for everybody by creating illusion of demand that really isn't there because they won't use what they bought.
this_user 4y ago
This because something is scarce, doesn't make it valuable. Claims to the contrary are just another example of crypto bros not understanding economics or human behaviour. Otherwise, a whole bunch of people with boxes of Beaning Babies would be rich by now.
- scotty79 4y ago
  Were beanie babies truely scarce? The way Rambrant paintings are?

wmf 4y ago

Gold is also speculative and it's much larger than BTC. I hate crypto but $100K BTC is completely possible.

eli 4y ago
Anything’s possible but gold is useful and has intrinsic value. Bitcoin isn’t very similar. I don’t think one implies anything about the other.
- mancerayder 4y ago
  Gold used for jewelry or industrials is a fraction of the overall yearly production of gold though. So it's mostly used as speculative instrument to store value (assuming this sentence is allowed with those two clauses together).
- andirk 4y ago
  Gold is by far mostly used as a store of value. Bitcoin is by far mostly used as a store of value. Next.