4 ms·

You're right, I shouldn't be generalising. > Lots of Muslims do not believe that Shariah law should be applied. I feel that one big difference of Islam is tha

by gnull 4y ago

You're right, I shouldn't be generalising. > Lots of Muslims do not believe that Shariah law should be applied. I feel that one big difference of Islam is that it makes the rules very explicit, from how the government should be organized to the last detail of how you should wash your hands (and how often). Christianity, on the other hand, has very few concrete regulations, but instead a ton of metaphysical, mystical and ethical things from which people are trying to deduce those regulations. So Christianity was easier to steer away from being a concrete manual for life to being a philosophical thing, a matter of choice that people who live within secular ethical framework can voluntarily practice. My question is, if you do the same to Islam will it still be Islam given how deeply the practical instructions are ebedded in it? Please correct me if I'm wrong, I have a rather rudimentary education in both topics.

hutzlibu 4y ago
"Christianity, on the other hand, has very few concrete regulations" Well, have a look in the old Testament then. There are very explicit rules about how to treat homosexuals and heretics for example and they are not nice. (I like the brick testament - famous bible quotes illustrated with Lego stones) https://thebricktestament.com/the_law/homosexuality/lv20_13a.html https://thebricktestament.com/the_law/homosexuality/lv20_13a... And yes, there is also Jesus, but among other things he has (supposedly) said, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law of Moses or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them." https://thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_the_law_of_moses/mt05_17.html https://thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_the_... So it is really not that simple. But the basic comparison between Jesus and Muhammed, well the one seemed to be mostly a love preaching hippie and the other mainly a warlord. But I know I have met Muslims who were devout believers, but who would never use violence, except to defend themself.
- gnull 4y ago
  That still fits my idea of "few". And also doesn't Christianity give some good excuses to question or review these? Especially, considering that New Testament builds up on top of the Old Testament. I'm asking about the stuff around the quotes you've shown (otherwise we could fall for confirmation bias). Please understand me correctly. I'm not saying Christianity doesn't have cruel or bad things. I'm saying it doesn't give one concrete, final, unchangeable set of rules. With Christian rules, it's easier to find excuse to augment or re-interpret them. I'm not saying there's no rules.
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    "I'm saying it doesn't give one concrete, final, unchangeable set of rules." Like I said, it is complicated and up for debate. I have heard many conflicting viewpoints about it. Some take the whole bible literal, including the literal laws of the old testament - and they are not just a few, but many, many explicit laws about everything. More are mainly literal about the 10 commandments. And for some the only law is Jesus saying: "Love other people like yourself". Since being raised catholic, I know quite a lot about the bible and less about the coran, but as far as I understand "With Christian rules, it's easier to find excuse to augment or re-interpret them." this is possible there as well, as Mohammed also said conflicting things, was softer in the beginning and harsher in the end, so you can also pick what you like. Hijab for example is not an explicite rule. And about Homosexuals, well, you probably won't find anything tolerant in the coran about it, but I think you won't find something in the bible either. What matters to me, is what people are doing.
    - gnull 4y ago
      Ok, maybe I was wrong, I don't know. I'd really like someone who knows about both to comment on what I wrote.
  - kergonath 4y ago
    > And also doesn't Christianity give some good excuses to question or review these? Especially, considering that New Testament builds up on top of the Old Testament. I'm asking about the stuff around the quotes you've shown (otherwise we could fall for confirmation bias). To some extent, yes. Also, there is a long tradition of theological debates in Christianity, right from the beginning. Christians are much more comfortable with the idea that the Bible should not be taken literally. Of course, there are 2 points that show up immediately when you say that. First, some Christians are literal fundamentalists so a long tradition is not enough. Second, Islam also has a long tradition of theological debates, and many different views and movements. I am not familiar enough with the History of Islam in the 20th century, but the fact is that there are lots of aspects that we associate with the religion without second thoughts that are actually Wahabbi practices. The rules against sex and alcohol are no less strict in the Old Testament than in the Quran. There is no reason why Islam would have to be more literal than any Christianism. > With Christian rules, it's easier to find excuse to augment or re-interpret them. I'm not saying there's no rules. That’s because we let a fundamentalist sect (well, mostly 2) redefine a whole religion.

by gnull 4y ago

hutzlibu 4y ago

"Christianity, on the other hand, has very few concrete regulations" Well, have a look in the old Testament then. There are very explicit rules about how to treat homosexuals and heretics for example and they are not nice. (I like the brick testament - famous bible quotes illustrated with Lego stones) https://thebricktestament.com/the_law/homosexuality/lv20_13a.html https://thebricktestament.com/the_law/homosexuality/lv20_13a... And yes, there is also Jesus, but among other things he has (supposedly) said, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law of Moses or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them." https://thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_the_law_of_moses/mt05_17.html https://thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_the_... So it is really not that simple. But the basic comparison between Jesus and Muhammed, well the one seemed to be mostly a love preaching hippie and the other mainly a warlord. But I know I have met Muslims who were devout believers, but who would never use violence, except to defend themself.

gnull 4y ago
That still fits my idea of "few". And also doesn't Christianity give some good excuses to question or review these? Especially, considering that New Testament builds up on top of the Old Testament. I'm asking about the stuff around the quotes you've shown (otherwise we could fall for confirmation bias). Please understand me correctly. I'm not saying Christianity doesn't have cruel or bad things. I'm saying it doesn't give one concrete, final, unchangeable set of rules. With Christian rules, it's easier to find excuse to augment or re-interpret them. I'm not saying there's no rules.
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  "I'm saying it doesn't give one concrete, final, unchangeable set of rules." Like I said, it is complicated and up for debate. I have heard many conflicting viewpoints about it. Some take the whole bible literal, including the literal laws of the old testament - and they are not just a few, but many, many explicit laws about everything. More are mainly literal about the 10 commandments. And for some the only law is Jesus saying: "Love other people like yourself". Since being raised catholic, I know quite a lot about the bible and less about the coran, but as far as I understand "With Christian rules, it's easier to find excuse to augment or re-interpret them." this is possible there as well, as Mohammed also said conflicting things, was softer in the beginning and harsher in the end, so you can also pick what you like. Hijab for example is not an explicite rule. And about Homosexuals, well, you probably won't find anything tolerant in the coran about it, but I think you won't find something in the bible either. What matters to me, is what people are doing.
  - gnull 4y ago
    Ok, maybe I was wrong, I don't know. I'd really like someone who knows about both to comment on what I wrote.
- kergonath 4y ago
  > And also doesn't Christianity give some good excuses to question or review these? Especially, considering that New Testament builds up on top of the Old Testament. I'm asking about the stuff around the quotes you've shown (otherwise we could fall for confirmation bias). To some extent, yes. Also, there is a long tradition of theological debates in Christianity, right from the beginning. Christians are much more comfortable with the idea that the Bible should not be taken literally. Of course, there are 2 points that show up immediately when you say that. First, some Christians are literal fundamentalists so a long tradition is not enough. Second, Islam also has a long tradition of theological debates, and many different views and movements. I am not familiar enough with the History of Islam in the 20th century, but the fact is that there are lots of aspects that we associate with the religion without second thoughts that are actually Wahabbi practices. The rules against sex and alcohol are no less strict in the Old Testament than in the Quran. There is no reason why Islam would have to be more literal than any Christianism. > With Christian rules, it's easier to find excuse to augment or re-interpret them. I'm not saying there's no rules. That’s because we let a fundamentalist sect (well, mostly 2) redefine a whole religion.