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Your lack of patience notwithstanding, it helps to take into consideration the fact that Islamic cultural practices vary from place to place. Saying that someth

Your lack of patience notwithstanding, it helps to take into consideration the fact that Islamic cultural practices vary from place to place. Saying that something is Persian doesn't fully capture the context. Sudanese Muslim culture is extremely conservative and until recently included laws against apostasy. The student who complained comes from this cultural background. Persians are generally from a different sect of Islam and have their own cultural complications. Right or wrong, that's the context. One fact of religious tolerance is that one person will inevitably view as sacred something that another person views as stupid. Drawing lines around certain practices is a challenging task for society as a whole. I personally don't believe that reducing everything to "fascism" is productive. Your suggestion that people be deported to Iran or Afghanistan is among the most common racist retorts against Muslim people and indicates a lack of tolerance for what is in reality a fairly complicated issue that can only be solved by mutual respect.

wazoox 4y ago
> mutual respect That's the point. This student obviously doesn't have any respect for the country and the culture he's currently living in. He has a point to make and a war to wage. And that's not xenophobic to say that; I've hosted an Afghan refugees for months. I didn't try to feed him pork, and he didn't try to stab me for eating ham or not praying for Allah. There are decent people everywhere. You can be an oppressed refugee, and still be a fascistic, intolerant moron; you can be a white cis male billionaire and still be a good person (this one's tough though). Being a victim buys you no moral superiority at all. Being a decent person only does.
- totalZero 4y ago
  Firstly the article says the student is a girl. How much do you really know about her and her attitude if you didn't read that part of the article? Regarding your experience with a refugee...doing good isn't a cache of poker chips. You can't justify judging a person today based on using something good that you said/did yesterday. I don't think it's right to say something along the lines of "we might as well send this Sudanese person to Afghanistan for objecting to an image depicting something they consider sacrilegious." I think you are wrong to frame the situation as a renegade student who is out to wage war. This (along with "if they don't like it, deport em") is a pretty common racist trope that is used to put Muslims down. Not saying that's your intent. Religious freedom in the US is usually viewed in a way that differs from Europe (esp. France). Rather than forcing people to act or think secularly, Americans try to respect other people's boundaries as they are. It's a fundamentally different concept. No idea where you're from, but based on your attitude toward the meaning of "mutual respect" I'm guessing France. It is likely that a Sudanese Muslim will view a depiction of the Muslim prophet as impermissible, and that a Persian Muslim will not. Why conflate the two? There's more context in the school newspaper. [0] "'I am showing you this image for a reason. And that is that there is this common thinking that Islam completely forbids, outright, any figurative depictions or any depictions of holy personages. While many Islamic cultures do strongly frown on this practice, I would like to remind you there is no one, monothetic Islamic culture,' the professor said before changing to the slide that included these depictions." The lecturer was aware that the images would be considered by many Muslims as forbidden. The head of the university's Muslim Students' Association was in the class. The lecture was on video and undoubtedly reviewed by the administration before they chose to let the adjunct professor go. To me, it seems like this was a self-own by the lecturer rather than some kind of "war" waged (as you put it) by a student. [0] https://hamlineoracle.com/10750/news/who-belongs/ https://hamlineoracle.com/10750/news/who-belongs/
  - wazoox 4y ago
    I strongly disagree. The professor said that she was about to show the picture and people who didn't like it had the option to not look at it. It was a planned, extremely deliberate aggression from the student to make a point about her intolerant, hateful interpretation of Islam. By going in a US University she knew that she would be exposed to ideas that will challenge her backwards beliefs. I think intolerant religion must not be tolerated in an open society. I think that a society has absolutely no obligation to try to be amenable and welcoming to any ideology. When I travel in a Muslim country, I don't go around at noon during Ramadan eating ham sandwiches and drinking beer. That student is doing exactly that. She's literally spitting in the face of the country that hosts and educates her. Yes, the professor may have tried to teach her students about the complexity of the world. That's the very definition of her job, after all! The next step for a person like this student ends in a Samuel Paty or Charlie Hebdo. My advice is to deport her back to her miserable, war-torn, fascistic backward country she shouldn't have left. Tolerance is great, but must be with at least a modicum of reciprocation. As Paul Claudel said "Tolerance? There are houses for that."
    - totalZero 4y ago
      Respectfully, you don't appear to understand the topic and you are heavily editorializing. I flagged your comment because it strikes me as hateful.

wazoox 4y ago

> mutual respect That's the point. This student obviously doesn't have any respect for the country and the culture he's currently living in. He has a point to make and a war to wage. And that's not xenophobic to say that; I've hosted an Afghan refugees for months. I didn't try to feed him pork, and he didn't try to stab me for eating ham or not praying for Allah. There are decent people everywhere. You can be an oppressed refugee, and still be a fascistic, intolerant moron; you can be a white cis male billionaire and still be a good person (this one's tough though). Being a victim buys you no moral superiority at all. Being a decent person only does.

totalZero 4y ago
Firstly the article says the student is a girl. How much do you really know about her and her attitude if you didn't read that part of the article? Regarding your experience with a refugee...doing good isn't a cache of poker chips. You can't justify judging a person today based on using something good that you said/did yesterday. I don't think it's right to say something along the lines of "we might as well send this Sudanese person to Afghanistan for objecting to an image depicting something they consider sacrilegious." I think you are wrong to frame the situation as a renegade student who is out to wage war. This (along with "if they don't like it, deport em") is a pretty common racist trope that is used to put Muslims down. Not saying that's your intent. Religious freedom in the US is usually viewed in a way that differs from Europe (esp. France). Rather than forcing people to act or think secularly, Americans try to respect other people's boundaries as they are. It's a fundamentally different concept. No idea where you're from, but based on your attitude toward the meaning of "mutual respect" I'm guessing France. It is likely that a Sudanese Muslim will view a depiction of the Muslim prophet as impermissible, and that a Persian Muslim will not. Why conflate the two? There's more context in the school newspaper. [0] "'I am showing you this image for a reason. And that is that there is this common thinking that Islam completely forbids, outright, any figurative depictions or any depictions of holy personages. While many Islamic cultures do strongly frown on this practice, I would like to remind you there is no one, monothetic Islamic culture,' the professor said before changing to the slide that included these depictions." The lecturer was aware that the images would be considered by many Muslims as forbidden. The head of the university's Muslim Students' Association was in the class. The lecture was on video and undoubtedly reviewed by the administration before they chose to let the adjunct professor go. To me, it seems like this was a self-own by the lecturer rather than some kind of "war" waged (as you put it) by a student. [0] https://hamlineoracle.com/10750/news/who-belongs/ https://hamlineoracle.com/10750/news/who-belongs/
- wazoox 4y ago
  I strongly disagree. The professor said that she was about to show the picture and people who didn't like it had the option to not look at it. It was a planned, extremely deliberate aggression from the student to make a point about her intolerant, hateful interpretation of Islam. By going in a US University she knew that she would be exposed to ideas that will challenge her backwards beliefs. I think intolerant religion must not be tolerated in an open society. I think that a society has absolutely no obligation to try to be amenable and welcoming to any ideology. When I travel in a Muslim country, I don't go around at noon during Ramadan eating ham sandwiches and drinking beer. That student is doing exactly that. She's literally spitting in the face of the country that hosts and educates her. Yes, the professor may have tried to teach her students about the complexity of the world. That's the very definition of her job, after all! The next step for a person like this student ends in a Samuel Paty or Charlie Hebdo. My advice is to deport her back to her miserable, war-torn, fascistic backward country she shouldn't have left. Tolerance is great, but must be with at least a modicum of reciprocation. As Paul Claudel said "Tolerance? There are houses for that."
  - totalZero 4y ago
    Respectfully, you don't appear to understand the topic and you are heavily editorializing. I flagged your comment because it strikes me as hateful.