7 ms·

Is Islam at all compatible with secular values in the same country? In the end, you will have one of the two encompass the other. Either you have a secular cou

by gnull 4y ago

Is Islam at all compatible with secular values in the same country? In the end, you will have one of the two encompass the other. Either you have a secular country living by democratic, progressive law which allows people to be Muslims modulo this. Or you have a Muslim country living by Shariah law, but tolerating secular non-believers in it. First won't work because Muslims (in the traditional sense) won't tolerate some other framework encompassing their worldview. They have taboo topics nobody should ever question, and secular ideology based on science will question things. And second won't work because Shariah law gives very concrete directions on dealing with non-believers.

morby 4y ago
[flagged]
- laserdancepony 4y ago
  Godwin's law never seems to fail.
  - morby 4y ago
    I find reactionary, conservative, and bigoted opinions come up more often that Hitler, but with obvious connections.
- pepperonipizza 4y ago
  I have notice your comments in this thread where you are making wild assumptions of the users commenting. Your reply here could fall under defamation.
  - morby 4y ago
    Please point out every comment I made in this thread and then point out which of those comments made “wild assumptions” and how they are “wild” based on the content of the comment being replied to. Also, defamation does not mean what you think it means.
kergonath 4y ago
> Is Islam at all compatible with secular values in the same country? It is. There are plenty of more or less practising Muslims who behave perfectly well and are strongly opposed to theocracy. In the same way that there are plenty of white Christians who don’t feel the urge to take a gun and mow down blasphemers. > And second won't work because Shariah law gives very concrete directions on dealing with non-believers. It’s a false dichotomy. Lots of Muslims do not believe that Shariah law should be applied. On the Christian side there have been debates for centuries about this sort of issue, and pretty much nobody believes that the laws in the Old Testament should be applied or have any relevance nowadays. By painting the whole of Islam as being one simple shade of fundamentalism, we contribute to making the situation worse. People need to realise that there are old Muslim traditions that don’t advocate for stoning people, and that what we take for standard Islam is the creed of a particular cult and not universal.
- Haga 4y ago
  [dead]
- TillE 4y ago
  To underline the point, nearly half of American Catholics are pro-choice. Religions really aren't a monolith, even when the stern Official Doctrine is quite clear.
- nnf 4y ago
  > pretty much nobody believes that the laws in the Old Testament should be applied or have any relevance nowadays. The Ten Commandments are in the Old Testament, and there are lots of conservative Christians in the U.S. trying to get them posted in courtrooms and public school classrooms.
- gnull 4y ago
  You're right, I shouldn't be generalising. > Lots of Muslims do not believe that Shariah law should be applied. I feel that one big difference of Islam is that it makes the rules very explicit, from how the government should be organized to the last detail of how you should wash your hands (and how often). Christianity, on the other hand, has very few concrete regulations, but instead a ton of metaphysical, mystical and ethical things from which people are trying to deduce those regulations. So Christianity was easier to steer away from being a concrete manual for life to being a philosophical thing, a matter of choice that people who live within secular ethical framework can voluntarily practice. My question is, if you do the same to Islam will it still be Islam given how deeply the practical instructions are ebedded in it? Please correct me if I'm wrong, I have a rather rudimentary education in both topics.
CJefferson 4y ago
Saying Islam feels far too strong. There are still groups of Christians who demand the death penalty for practicing gays. Certainly some Islamic groups are incompatible with secular values.
- boruto 4y ago
  > Saying Islam feels far too strong. There are still groups of Christians who demand the death penalty for practicing gays. If you read the news there is certainly a stronger impact by one group.
yodsanklai 4y ago
> Is Islam at all compatible with secular values in the same country? Yes it is. I don't know about Shariah law, but all muslims I know are just like anybody else. I think you're conflating some zealots with a large group of people who are mostly secular (just like lots of christians don't do anything christian besides celebrating Christmas and the occasional funeral at the church). The real issue here is some school administrators bending over because a fanatic complained.
dang 4y ago
Please don't start religious flamewars on HN. Last thing we need here, and highly avoidable. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

by gnull 4y ago

morby 4y ago

[flagged]

laserdancepony 4y ago
Godwin's law never seems to fail.
- morby 4y ago
  I find reactionary, conservative, and bigoted opinions come up more often that Hitler, but with obvious connections.
pepperonipizza 4y ago
I have notice your comments in this thread where you are making wild assumptions of the users commenting. Your reply here could fall under defamation.
- morby 4y ago
  Please point out every comment I made in this thread and then point out which of those comments made “wild assumptions” and how they are “wild” based on the content of the comment being replied to. Also, defamation does not mean what you think it means.

kergonath 4y ago

> Is Islam at all compatible with secular values in the same country? It is. There are plenty of more or less practising Muslims who behave perfectly well and are strongly opposed to theocracy. In the same way that there are plenty of white Christians who don’t feel the urge to take a gun and mow down blasphemers. > And second won't work because Shariah law gives very concrete directions on dealing with non-believers. It’s a false dichotomy. Lots of Muslims do not believe that Shariah law should be applied. On the Christian side there have been debates for centuries about this sort of issue, and pretty much nobody believes that the laws in the Old Testament should be applied or have any relevance nowadays. By painting the whole of Islam as being one simple shade of fundamentalism, we contribute to making the situation worse. People need to realise that there are old Muslim traditions that don’t advocate for stoning people, and that what we take for standard Islam is the creed of a particular cult and not universal.

Haga 4y ago
[dead]
TillE 4y ago
To underline the point, nearly half of American Catholics are pro-choice. Religions really aren't a monolith, even when the stern Official Doctrine is quite clear.
nnf 4y ago
> pretty much nobody believes that the laws in the Old Testament should be applied or have any relevance nowadays. The Ten Commandments are in the Old Testament, and there are lots of conservative Christians in the U.S. trying to get them posted in courtrooms and public school classrooms.
gnull 4y ago
You're right, I shouldn't be generalising. > Lots of Muslims do not believe that Shariah law should be applied. I feel that one big difference of Islam is that it makes the rules very explicit, from how the government should be organized to the last detail of how you should wash your hands (and how often). Christianity, on the other hand, has very few concrete regulations, but instead a ton of metaphysical, mystical and ethical things from which people are trying to deduce those regulations. So Christianity was easier to steer away from being a concrete manual for life to being a philosophical thing, a matter of choice that people who live within secular ethical framework can voluntarily practice. My question is, if you do the same to Islam will it still be Islam given how deeply the practical instructions are ebedded in it? Please correct me if I'm wrong, I have a rather rudimentary education in both topics.

CJefferson 4y ago

Saying Islam feels far too strong. There are still groups of Christians who demand the death penalty for practicing gays. Certainly some Islamic groups are incompatible with secular values.

boruto 4y ago
> Saying Islam feels far too strong. There are still groups of Christians who demand the death penalty for practicing gays. If you read the news there is certainly a stronger impact by one group.

yodsanklai 4y ago

> Is Islam at all compatible with secular values in the same country? Yes it is. I don't know about Shariah law, but all muslims I know are just like anybody else. I think you're conflating some zealots with a large group of people who are mostly secular (just like lots of christians don't do anything christian besides celebrating Christmas and the occasional funeral at the church). The real issue here is some school administrators bending over because a fanatic complained.

dang 4y ago

Please don't start religious flamewars on HN. Last thing we need here, and highly avoidable. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html