7 ms·

As a person that hates to work with both delphi and python this sounds like hell. I dislike this so much that I'm willing to settle for java over this.

FpUser 4y ago
I was thinking should I bother to check but your invaluable insight has made my decision easy.
int_19h 4y ago
Why? VCL should be possible to map to rather idiomatic Python.
- kindofabigdeal 4y ago
  That's not the issue I'm trying to point to it's how opinionated both are.
  - int_19h 4y ago
    That's what I don't understand. VCL is opinionated in ways that should all maps quite nicely to a class hierarchy in Python. What specifically are you thinking off that would look out of place? Method names, maybe - I wonder if they translated those?
nurettin 4y ago
Why would you dislike working with data modules or design time? It makes no sense to me.
- kindofabigdeal 4y ago
  Because I actually have five years experience in both and what you win in "time" in rad studio you lose in debugging because of how highly opinionated it is. an electron app as bloated as it is, is easier to maintain than this nonsense. Now imagine the unmaintainablity of delphi with whitespace hell of python... Yeah no thanks.
  - FpUser 4y ago
    I have desktop product written in Delphi (device control, video, directx, data processing) which is more than 10 years old already. So far I have no problems maintaining it through numerous versions of Delphi.
  - mickeyp 4y ago
    I worked on a millions of LOC of generally not-that-well-written Delphi code back in the day. Aside from the generally not-amazing quality of the code, it was never hard to debug, nor necessarily maintain. There are many valid criticisms to levy at Delphi and Python, but those ain't it.
    - kindofabigdeal 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - jamespo 4y ago
        Hmm what point of view do I go for, the 25 day old anon unaccountable one or the 10 year old github profiled named one?
    - magicalhippo 4y ago
      Similar. We have fairly large project, a few MLOC with many hundreds of windows/forms, all kinds of IO and whatnot. We've got code in production that was written back in Delphi 3 days (1997) that's chugging along just fine. The only thing I think is hard to debug is focus related issues, due to the Windows event loop getting in the way. That's hardly a Delphi-specific issue though. Other than that debugging and maintenance is quite easy. In fact we don't have to spend much at all on actual maintenance, as backwards compatibility has been great in the new versions. For example, the switch from non-unicode to unicode strings took us just a couple of days. And we're in the Nordics so we'd notice quick with our "weird" letters.
      - mickeyp 4y ago
        > The only thing I think is hard to debug is focus related issues, due to the Windows event loop getting in the way. That's hardly a Delphi-specific issue though. That and losing the source code for some random, obscure vcl component you found on torry's back in the late 90s :-)
deleted 4y ago
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gbin 4y ago
Interesting usually junior or medior people have such a strong negative opinion about tools but you touched Delphi so I must guess you have at least a couple decades of experience? Tools and languages have tradeoffs and it is always more constructive to see them through that lens. If you want to make a native UI intensive app in no time and iterate quickly, yes Delphi is your tool (remember how crazy fast pascal was building on machines from 20y ago!). Do that in let's say c++ and your experience will be totally different. Python too has huge qualities for prototyping quickly and gluing apis (to develop ML models for example!). Usually you like the language because it fits well what you want or like to do.. if you love system programming then Rust or C have a better chance to be marvelous to you.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

FpUser 4y ago

I was thinking should I bother to check but your invaluable insight has made my decision easy.

int_19h 4y ago

Why? VCL should be possible to map to rather idiomatic Python.

kindofabigdeal 4y ago
That's not the issue I'm trying to point to it's how opinionated both are.
- int_19h 4y ago
  That's what I don't understand. VCL is opinionated in ways that should all maps quite nicely to a class hierarchy in Python. What specifically are you thinking off that would look out of place? Method names, maybe - I wonder if they translated those?

nurettin 4y ago

Why would you dislike working with data modules or design time? It makes no sense to me.

kindofabigdeal 4y ago
Because I actually have five years experience in both and what you win in "time" in rad studio you lose in debugging because of how highly opinionated it is. an electron app as bloated as it is, is easier to maintain than this nonsense. Now imagine the unmaintainablity of delphi with whitespace hell of python... Yeah no thanks.
- FpUser 4y ago
  I have desktop product written in Delphi (device control, video, directx, data processing) which is more than 10 years old already. So far I have no problems maintaining it through numerous versions of Delphi.
- mickeyp 4y ago
  I worked on a millions of LOC of generally not-that-well-written Delphi code back in the day. Aside from the generally not-amazing quality of the code, it was never hard to debug, nor necessarily maintain. There are many valid criticisms to levy at Delphi and Python, but those ain't it.
  - kindofabigdeal 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - jamespo 4y ago
      Hmm what point of view do I go for, the 25 day old anon unaccountable one or the 10 year old github profiled named one?
  - magicalhippo 4y ago
    Similar. We have fairly large project, a few MLOC with many hundreds of windows/forms, all kinds of IO and whatnot. We've got code in production that was written back in Delphi 3 days (1997) that's chugging along just fine. The only thing I think is hard to debug is focus related issues, due to the Windows event loop getting in the way. That's hardly a Delphi-specific issue though. Other than that debugging and maintenance is quite easy. In fact we don't have to spend much at all on actual maintenance, as backwards compatibility has been great in the new versions. For example, the switch from non-unicode to unicode strings took us just a couple of days. And we're in the Nordics so we'd notice quick with our "weird" letters.
    - mickeyp 4y ago
      > The only thing I think is hard to debug is focus related issues, due to the Windows event loop getting in the way. That's hardly a Delphi-specific issue though. That and losing the source code for some random, obscure vcl component you found on torry's back in the late 90s :-)

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

gbin 4y ago

Interesting usually junior or medior people have such a strong negative opinion about tools but you touched Delphi so I must guess you have at least a couple decades of experience? Tools and languages have tradeoffs and it is always more constructive to see them through that lens. If you want to make a native UI intensive app in no time and iterate quickly, yes Delphi is your tool (remember how crazy fast pascal was building on machines from 20y ago!). Do that in let's say c++ and your experience will be totally different. Python too has huge qualities for prototyping quickly and gluing apis (to develop ML models for example!). Usually you like the language because it fits well what you want or like to do.. if you love system programming then Rust or C have a better chance to be marvelous to you.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]