11 ms·

You can add hydrogen to natural gas (using existing pipelines and storage), and so slowly replace that. No changes to existing infrastructure needed up to maybe

You can add hydrogen to natural gas (using existing pipelines and storage), and so slowly replace that. No changes to existing infrastructure needed up to maybe 20% I think.

youngtaff 4y ago
You can but there are concerns about hydrogen being a smaller molecule so we’d get increased leakage (with knock on effects) No one really knows how our existing natural gas infrastructure will cope with hydrogen
- timthorn 4y ago
  Trials of grid distribution for up to 20% H2 blended gas have been undertaken successfully in the UK: https://hydeploy.co.uk/app/uploads/2018/02/HYDEPLOY-FOURTH-OFGEM-PPR.pdf https://hydeploy.co.uk/app/uploads/2018/02/HYDEPLOY-FOURTH-O... https://hydeploy.co.uk/app/uploads/2018/02/21935_CADENT_HYDEPLOY_REPORT_v3.pdf https://hydeploy.co.uk/app/uploads/2018/02/21935_CADENT_HYDE... https://academic.oup.com/ce/article/3/2/114/5487479 https://academic.oup.com/ce/article/3/2/114/5487479
- thomasmg 4y ago
  Natural gas infrastructure already deals with hydrogen: 2% of natural gas is hydrogen. For town gas which was used before (made from coal), hydrogen content was around 50%, so this isn't entirely new. Of course you can't re-use the existing infrastructure and use 100% hydrogen. This isn't black-and-white. Leakage is a disadvantage, as it is for fossil fuels (natural gas, oil, coal,...). Other technologies have other problems: windmills kill birds and bats! Pumped storage kills fish! Dams cause methane leaks! It is important to quantify how much of a problem those disadvantages really are.
fungi 4y ago
hydrogen worsens the impact of methane in the atmosphere and as such simply pumping hydrogen through existing infrastructure sounds pretty dangerous. https://theconversation.com/dont-rush-into-a-hydrogen-economy-until-we-know-all-the-risks-to-our-climate-140433 https://theconversation.com/dont-rush-into-a-hydrogen-econom... https://agage.mit.edu/publications/global-environmental-impacts-hydrogen-economy https://agage.mit.edu/publications/global-environmental-impa... more skeptically, given that green hydrogen remains a pipe dream, it's both a useful delaying tactic for switching to electricity and furthering investment in fossil fuels, which must stay in the ground if we are to have any hope of staying below 1.5c. https://www.carbonbrief.org/new-fossil-fuels-incompatible-with-1-5c-goal-comprehensive-analysis-finds/ https://www.carbonbrief.org/new-fossil-fuels-incompatible-wi...
- thomasmg 4y ago
  Natural gas already contains hydrogen. Up to 20% of hydrogen in natural gas doesn't sound all that dangerous. The article you linked says "if a hydrogen economy replaced the fossil fuel-based energy system and had a leakage rate of 1%, its climate impact would be 0.6% of the fossil fuel system.". So the climate impact would be 100 times smaller(?) Yes there are many delaying tactic for switching to electricity (the promise of "synthetic fuel" for example, to power existing gas cars). But using hydrogen to replace fossil fuels is needed anyway, for example for ammonia production and steel manufacturing. So I don't understand why you think hydrogen will delay the switch to electricity.

You can add hydrogen to natural gas (using existing pipelines and storage), and so slowly replace that. No changes to existing infrastructure needed up to maybe 20% I think.

youngtaff 4y ago

You can but there are concerns about hydrogen being a smaller molecule so we’d get increased leakage (with knock on effects) No one really knows how our existing natural gas infrastructure will cope with hydrogen

timthorn 4y ago
Trials of grid distribution for up to 20% H2 blended gas have been undertaken successfully in the UK: https://hydeploy.co.uk/app/uploads/2018/02/HYDEPLOY-FOURTH-OFGEM-PPR.pdf https://hydeploy.co.uk/app/uploads/2018/02/HYDEPLOY-FOURTH-O... https://hydeploy.co.uk/app/uploads/2018/02/21935_CADENT_HYDEPLOY_REPORT_v3.pdf https://hydeploy.co.uk/app/uploads/2018/02/21935_CADENT_HYDE... https://academic.oup.com/ce/article/3/2/114/5487479 https://academic.oup.com/ce/article/3/2/114/5487479
thomasmg 4y ago
Natural gas infrastructure already deals with hydrogen: 2% of natural gas is hydrogen. For town gas which was used before (made from coal), hydrogen content was around 50%, so this isn't entirely new. Of course you can't re-use the existing infrastructure and use 100% hydrogen. This isn't black-and-white. Leakage is a disadvantage, as it is for fossil fuels (natural gas, oil, coal,...). Other technologies have other problems: windmills kill birds and bats! Pumped storage kills fish! Dams cause methane leaks! It is important to quantify how much of a problem those disadvantages really are.

fungi 4y ago

hydrogen worsens the impact of methane in the atmosphere and as such simply pumping hydrogen through existing infrastructure sounds pretty dangerous. https://theconversation.com/dont-rush-into-a-hydrogen-economy-until-we-know-all-the-risks-to-our-climate-140433 https://theconversation.com/dont-rush-into-a-hydrogen-econom... https://agage.mit.edu/publications/global-environmental-impacts-hydrogen-economy https://agage.mit.edu/publications/global-environmental-impa... more skeptically, given that green hydrogen remains a pipe dream, it's both a useful delaying tactic for switching to electricity and furthering investment in fossil fuels, which must stay in the ground if we are to have any hope of staying below 1.5c. https://www.carbonbrief.org/new-fossil-fuels-incompatible-with-1-5c-goal-comprehensive-analysis-finds/ https://www.carbonbrief.org/new-fossil-fuels-incompatible-wi...

thomasmg 4y ago
Natural gas already contains hydrogen. Up to 20% of hydrogen in natural gas doesn't sound all that dangerous. The article you linked says "if a hydrogen economy replaced the fossil fuel-based energy system and had a leakage rate of 1%, its climate impact would be 0.6% of the fossil fuel system.". So the climate impact would be 100 times smaller(?) Yes there are many delaying tactic for switching to electricity (the promise of "synthetic fuel" for example, to power existing gas cars). But using hydrogen to replace fossil fuels is needed anyway, for example for ammonia production and steel manufacturing. So I don't understand why you think hydrogen will delay the switch to electricity.