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What a bogus hypothetical. What market exists to buy individual cones? It’s not the bundling that’s the problem, it’s dropping prices of a single product in a

What a bogus hypothetical. What market exists to buy individual cones? It’s not the bundling that’s the problem, it’s dropping prices of a single product in a single market to destroy competition in that space while staying afloat with VC or other revenue streams/products.

monero-xmr 4y ago
So you say! I included a cone for FREE with my ice cream. I have dropped the price to zero! If we banned ice cream trucks from selling cones, surely an independent cone business would spring up if market demand existed. This contrived example is to prove my point - you claim I’m speaking absurdities, but if I claim bundling a database (or caching solution, or search engine, whatever) is merely a convenience, you cry foul. Nothing is logical here
- hattmall 4y ago
  Your example is not analogous. It is more accurate to say you are an ice cream seller and the only ice cream seller. Their is a thriving market of sellers for donuts and you wish to sell donuts so you give away free donuts with all the ice cream you sale. Not because this is your value proposition, but because you wish to make the donut business untenable for anyone other than the largest ice cream seller. That is antithetical to competition. There should be limits or a prohibition on subsidizing horizontal or vertical business integrations. The limits should be related to the long term consumer value proposition.
Dracophoenix 4y ago
> It’s not the bundling that’s the problem, it’s dropping prices of a single product in a single market to destroy competition in that space while staying afloat with VC or other revenue streams/products. The same could be said of open-source software. Most open-source software are clones of commercial products, supported by free labor, and provided at $0. The most successful ones undermine their commercial counterpart and may go so far as to destroy a previously commercially-viable industry. As an example, do you think Linux should be regulated out of existence because its provided at a unsustainably low cost with respect to the competition? If Linux didn't exist, commercial Unix could still be a competitive market. Linux's expansion has also resulted in the deterioration of the consumer OS market, where there had previously been AmigaOS, AtariTOS, VMS, Solaris, BeOS, etc. Linux is also backed by a cartel of commercial supporters that influence what gets added, what gets supported, and what gets kept out. Obviously, these decisions affect what hardware and software consumers would consider purchasing/supporting.
- llbeansandrice 4y ago
  You’re right that these OS projects can and do destroy the competitive market for their space, but critically they are both free (as in beer and often as in freedom as well) and open. Their reason for being free is not for market capture to destroy competition and then drive up prices. Amazon bundling a service and providing it at reduced cost to capture the market is neither free nor is it open.

monero-xmr 4y ago

So you say! I included a cone for FREE with my ice cream. I have dropped the price to zero! If we banned ice cream trucks from selling cones, surely an independent cone business would spring up if market demand existed. This contrived example is to prove my point - you claim I’m speaking absurdities, but if I claim bundling a database (or caching solution, or search engine, whatever) is merely a convenience, you cry foul. Nothing is logical here

hattmall 4y ago
Your example is not analogous. It is more accurate to say you are an ice cream seller and the only ice cream seller. Their is a thriving market of sellers for donuts and you wish to sell donuts so you give away free donuts with all the ice cream you sale. Not because this is your value proposition, but because you wish to make the donut business untenable for anyone other than the largest ice cream seller. That is antithetical to competition. There should be limits or a prohibition on subsidizing horizontal or vertical business integrations. The limits should be related to the long term consumer value proposition.

Dracophoenix 4y ago

> It’s not the bundling that’s the problem, it’s dropping prices of a single product in a single market to destroy competition in that space while staying afloat with VC or other revenue streams/products. The same could be said of open-source software. Most open-source software are clones of commercial products, supported by free labor, and provided at $0. The most successful ones undermine their commercial counterpart and may go so far as to destroy a previously commercially-viable industry. As an example, do you think Linux should be regulated out of existence because its provided at a unsustainably low cost with respect to the competition? If Linux didn't exist, commercial Unix could still be a competitive market. Linux's expansion has also resulted in the deterioration of the consumer OS market, where there had previously been AmigaOS, AtariTOS, VMS, Solaris, BeOS, etc. Linux is also backed by a cartel of commercial supporters that influence what gets added, what gets supported, and what gets kept out. Obviously, these decisions affect what hardware and software consumers would consider purchasing/supporting.

llbeansandrice 4y ago
You’re right that these OS projects can and do destroy the competitive market for their space, but critically they are both free (as in beer and often as in freedom as well) and open. Their reason for being free is not for market capture to destroy competition and then drive up prices. Amazon bundling a service and providing it at reduced cost to capture the market is neither free nor is it open.