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>In the public schools, there is zero incentive to educate the kids I can't imagine many teachers feeling this way, seriously. Not everything requires life-or

>In the public schools, there is zero incentive to educate the kids I can't imagine many teachers feeling this way, seriously. Not everything requires life-or-death financial pressure to encourage excellence.

WalterBright 4y ago
> I can't imagine many teachers feeling this way, seriously. Even the most well-intentioned teachers behave according to their incentives. > Not everything requires life-or-death financial pressure to encourage excellence. I didn't say everything. After all, I work on D for free. But you simply cannot run an organization with tens of thousands of people in it and expect excellence when there is zero incentive for excellence. It just ain't gonna happen. Teacher pay is 100% based on length of service and which college degree. Nothing else. Nothing. It matters naught whether a good job is done or not. Even if one wins "Teacher of the Year", it is worth exactly $0.
- naasking 4y ago
  Financial incentives are not good motivators for excellence. Numerous studies have borne this out. When money is used as an incentive, people start cutting corners.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    > Financial incentives are not good motivators for excellence. Yet they drive the entire economy. They work better than anything else. Other systems have been tried repeatedly that rely on: 1. the lash 2. altruism and ideology 3. threats of going to hell are pretty lousy motivators.
    - naasking 4y ago
      We're talking about people, not economies. Financial incentives work up to a point, and then they start perverting behaviour. Better motivations for people on an individual level within an organization are autonomy, mastery and purpose, eg. give them an objective that seems meaningful, and give them the freedom to master the skills needed achieve that goal in a way they know works for them.
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        Nothing works as well as money. Giving people autonomy, mastery, and purpose can help, but that simply does not scale.
polypodiopsi 4y ago
I agree. You know these kids aren't just "variables". You learn to know them, build relationships with them and try to make them succeed as much as is possible. Some people really are quite detatched from the social link.

WalterBright 4y ago

> I can't imagine many teachers feeling this way, seriously. Even the most well-intentioned teachers behave according to their incentives. > Not everything requires life-or-death financial pressure to encourage excellence. I didn't say everything. After all, I work on D for free. But you simply cannot run an organization with tens of thousands of people in it and expect excellence when there is zero incentive for excellence. It just ain't gonna happen. Teacher pay is 100% based on length of service and which college degree. Nothing else. Nothing. It matters naught whether a good job is done or not. Even if one wins "Teacher of the Year", it is worth exactly $0.

naasking 4y ago
Financial incentives are not good motivators for excellence. Numerous studies have borne this out. When money is used as an incentive, people start cutting corners.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  > Financial incentives are not good motivators for excellence. Yet they drive the entire economy. They work better than anything else. Other systems have been tried repeatedly that rely on: 1. the lash 2. altruism and ideology 3. threats of going to hell are pretty lousy motivators.
  - naasking 4y ago
    We're talking about people, not economies. Financial incentives work up to a point, and then they start perverting behaviour. Better motivations for people on an individual level within an organization are autonomy, mastery and purpose, eg. give them an objective that seems meaningful, and give them the freedom to master the skills needed achieve that goal in a way they know works for them.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      Nothing works as well as money. Giving people autonomy, mastery, and purpose can help, but that simply does not scale.

polypodiopsi 4y ago

I agree. You know these kids aren't just "variables". You learn to know them, build relationships with them and try to make them succeed as much as is possible. Some people really are quite detatched from the social link.