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"over 10% of English speakers are from cultures with a continued tradition of having more than two genders" Can you name a example? Genuinly interested. Do you

"over 10% of English speakers are from cultures with a continued tradition of having more than two genders" Can you name a example? Genuinly interested. Do you mean neutrum? "But he advocates for, and aids, the harassment of people I care about." This is something not tolerable. "It's not about blame; it's about trust: he doesn't deserve yours." And he never had my trust. I never heard of him. I simply observed that on his blog he made some valid points mixed in with some prejudices and of everything else I had no idea before - and while asking exactly that further down, there came no more examples, of him doing wrong, besides having a different opinion. So my main point was and is, that this whole debate has gone off rails a long time ago. Funnily enough, yesterday I was banned from a Telegram group, I stumbled into, found they were "critical of the gender agenda", and they all had of course "homosexual friends who also thinks that", but behind the masks and after asking more questions, they turned out to be very trans- and homophobic, liked their bubble and any other viewpoint was not welcome and I got kicked out. And so here my initial comment is flagged as well, apparently from the other side. Is there really no more middle ground? Is there really only the option of choining the racists, or submitting totally to the latest progressive agenda and staying up to date to the most recent words I have to learn to not offend anyone, or otherwise risk a career ending shitstorm? This is my problem with this whole debate, it polarizes and increases the rifts in society. And it does not convince people of anything, it just scares people to speak up their mind. I am pretty progressive I think and when I still have the wrong opinion, that needs to be flagged, well, good luck convincing any "normal" people out there and not pushing them more to the other extreme side. (directed not necessarily at you, but at the people who flagged my opinion above)

wizzwizz4 4y ago
> Can you name a example? Genuinly interested. I'm not the right person to ask about this, but there's a list on the Nonbinary wiki[0]. (Remember to check the Further reading and References sections; Nonbinary wiki articles can be a bit hit-or-miss.) Some of them "don't count" from a "sexuality/gender distinction" perspective, but that philosophy isn't universal in cultural studies, and I think it's starting to become less universal in mainstream feminism. > And so here my initial comment is flagged as well, apparently from the other side. So was mine – and a really trollish one's been vouched for, too. *shrug* That's just how these things go. > Is there really no more middle ground? Sure there is. • Be slightly kinder than you have to. • Don't get famous, and especially don't get internet famous. You're doing it right already. I like to think I'm doing it right (but I think I'm getting into too many internet arguments for that). > This is my problem with this whole debate, it polarizes and increases the rifts in society. The whole "debate" is recent, and artificial; I suspect it only exists to create justification for the claim that trans rights are "controversial" (despite widespread public support in places like the UK). Don't let yourself get sucked in. So long as you're not insisting when people say they don't want to engage[1] (even when they're being rude and you're being polite – remember, you might be the fifth person this week, and the other four might've been trolling bigots), and so long as you're not playing Devil's Advocate[2] or poking holes / finding gotchas, it's fine to ask questions. (If you're seeing "gotchas", it usually means that there's a drastic difference between your understanding of the subject matter and the understanding of whoever you're listening to.) Oh, and take things critically. Much feminist discourse online is very ill-informed, and I'm no exception. There are people who say Always Do X because ABC, or Never Do Y because DEF – but they're talking about their own experiences, and their reasoning might not apply universally. Don't mistake confidence for competence, and don't dismiss somebody just because they're not using the "right words" for things. Question your confidence, but don't shy overmuch away from questioning other people's: here, asking for reasoning is a much better approach than telling people they're wrong. If it's necessary to do so, emphasise why you don't understand (e.g. "My native language barely has gendered adjective declension; could you give some more examples?"), rather than that you don't understand (e.g. "why does it matter? I still don't get it"). Take this advice critically, too. [0]: https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Gender-variant_identities_worldwide https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Gender-variant_identities_worldw... [1]: https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/problem-with-educate-me/ https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/problem-with-educate-me... [2]: https://feministing.com/2014/05/30/an-open-letter-to-privileged-people-who-play-devils-advocate/ https://feministing.com/2014/05/30/an-open-letter-to-privile...

wizzwizz4 4y ago

> Can you name a example? Genuinly interested. I'm not the right person to ask about this, but there's a list on the Nonbinary wiki[0]. (Remember to check the Further reading and References sections; Nonbinary wiki articles can be a bit hit-or-miss.) Some of them "don't count" from a "sexuality/gender distinction" perspective, but that philosophy isn't universal in cultural studies, and I think it's starting to become less universal in mainstream feminism. > And so here my initial comment is flagged as well, apparently from the other side. So was mine – and a really trollish one's been vouched for, too. *shrug* That's just how these things go. > Is there really no more middle ground? Sure there is. • Be slightly kinder than you have to. • Don't get famous, and especially don't get internet famous. You're doing it right already. I like to think I'm doing it right (but I think I'm getting into too many internet arguments for that). > This is my problem with this whole debate, it polarizes and increases the rifts in society. The whole "debate" is recent, and artificial; I suspect it only exists to create justification for the claim that trans rights are "controversial" (despite widespread public support in places like the UK). Don't let yourself get sucked in. So long as you're not insisting when people say they don't want to engage[1] (even when they're being rude and you're being polite – remember, you might be the fifth person this week, and the other four might've been trolling bigots), and so long as you're not playing Devil's Advocate[2] or poking holes / finding gotchas, it's fine to ask questions. (If you're seeing "gotchas", it usually means that there's a drastic difference between your understanding of the subject matter and the understanding of whoever you're listening to.) Oh, and take things critically. Much feminist discourse online is very ill-informed, and I'm no exception. There are people who say Always Do X because ABC, or Never Do Y because DEF – but they're talking about their own experiences, and their reasoning might not apply universally. Don't mistake confidence for competence, and don't dismiss somebody just because they're not using the "right words" for things. Question your confidence, but don't shy overmuch away from questioning other people's: here, asking for reasoning is a much better approach than telling people they're wrong. If it's necessary to do so, emphasise why you don't understand (e.g. "My native language barely has gendered adjective declension; could you give some more examples?"), rather than that you don't understand (e.g. "why does it matter? I still don't get it"). Take this advice critically, too. [0]: https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Gender-variant_identities_worldwide https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Gender-variant_identities_worldw... [1]: https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/problem-with-educate-me/ https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/problem-with-educate-me... [2]: https://feministing.com/2014/05/30/an-open-letter-to-privileged-people-who-play-devils-advocate/ https://feministing.com/2014/05/30/an-open-letter-to-privile...