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Regarding the left becoming “less liberal”, I think it really became “more international.” The left realized that most liberal democracies have laws against ha

Regarding the left becoming “less liberal”, I think it really became “more international.” The left realized that most liberal democracies have laws against hate speech, technocratic power centers, extensive regulation, etc. If Germany can outlaw hate speech, fringe political movements, and private ownership of firearms, why can’t we? Notice how the Democrats focus on healthcare, even when it hurts them (they were killed at the polls over Obamacare in 2010). If every other country has state guaranteed affordable healthcare, why can’t we?

zozbot234 4y ago
> If every other country has state guaranteed affordable healthcare, why can’t we? Because government meddling has already made healthcare unaffordable?
- TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
  The "market good government bad" really is one of the most poorly considered and hard to defend positions. In the US the government is wholly captured by the oligarchy. There's a reason why health care is extortionate and the defence budget is a huge pork factory, and it's not because voters are content with that balance. That's one of the points of the original article. The US pats itself on the back for being a market driven economy of freedom and opportunity, when in reality for most of the population it's a labour camp. It's true there are various levels of comfort, but they all demand time and labour and non-compliance is punished severely. Genuine freedom requires at least an eight figure net worth. Without that the system treats you like a disposable NPC. Independent opportunity is possible, but most people quite literally cannot afford the risks.
  - zozbot234 4y ago
    > In the US the government is wholly captured by the oligarchy. All large-enough organizations are captured by an oligarchy of some kind. It's an iron law of social organization. The term for a genuinely decentralized counterpart of organization that's immune to such capture is, well, a "market". (And yes, non-monetary markets can exist. HN itself is, in no small part, a market for upvotes.) > ... when in reality for most of the population it's a labour camp. It's true there are various levels of comfort, but they all demand time and labour People who have lived in a less-developed country will be well aware that this description is far more applicable to such places than the U.S. The U.S. is far from perfect, there's plenty of room for improvement. But the direction of improvement is for more involvement of a genuine free market, not less of it.
    - ryandrake 4y ago
      The free market is good for a lot of things, but it cannot solve large, society-wide problems, problems that require collective, coordinated action from people, or problems that take more than a quarter to finish.

zozbot234 4y ago

> If every other country has state guaranteed affordable healthcare, why can’t we? Because government meddling has already made healthcare unaffordable?

TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
The "market good government bad" really is one of the most poorly considered and hard to defend positions. In the US the government is wholly captured by the oligarchy. There's a reason why health care is extortionate and the defence budget is a huge pork factory, and it's not because voters are content with that balance. That's one of the points of the original article. The US pats itself on the back for being a market driven economy of freedom and opportunity, when in reality for most of the population it's a labour camp. It's true there are various levels of comfort, but they all demand time and labour and non-compliance is punished severely. Genuine freedom requires at least an eight figure net worth. Without that the system treats you like a disposable NPC. Independent opportunity is possible, but most people quite literally cannot afford the risks.
- zozbot234 4y ago
  > In the US the government is wholly captured by the oligarchy. All large-enough organizations are captured by an oligarchy of some kind. It's an iron law of social organization. The term for a genuinely decentralized counterpart of organization that's immune to such capture is, well, a "market". (And yes, non-monetary markets can exist. HN itself is, in no small part, a market for upvotes.) > ... when in reality for most of the population it's a labour camp. It's true there are various levels of comfort, but they all demand time and labour People who have lived in a less-developed country will be well aware that this description is far more applicable to such places than the U.S. The U.S. is far from perfect, there's plenty of room for improvement. But the direction of improvement is for more involvement of a genuine free market, not less of it.
  - ryandrake 4y ago
    The free market is good for a lot of things, but it cannot solve large, society-wide problems, problems that require collective, coordinated action from people, or problems that take more than a quarter to finish.