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Pursuing self interest isn't poison. There are many examples in history (and in our modern world) where doing the "selfless" thing is just manipulation for ser

Pursuing self interest isn't poison. There are many examples in history (and in our modern world) where doing the "selfless" thing is just manipulation for serving someone else's interests first. Religious leaders maintained power over society for ages by determining what was selfish behavior. We likely cannot agree on a rule which always properly distinguishes between pursuing self interest for survival's sake versus crossing the line into harming others. Since we are forced to inhabit the same world, it's best to not disparage others for pursuing their own self interest as long as they aren't hurting you directly.

di456 4y ago
"Poison" is hyperbole but I read it as ego. Coming from an exclusively ego-centric place generally doesn't lead to the best outcomes in life. Unchecked ego is part of narcissism spectrum. We all have some of it. Extreme narcissism is a cancer in modern culture. Maybe that's what OP meant by poison.
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  The poison I meant is the difference between communal animals and human society. The root of why we are so noxious and odious a beast is the self, and a lack of realization the self doesn’t exist as it’s impermanent and ever changing. But I give away my doctrine here :-)
  - di456 4y ago
    I appreciate the perspective. If the self doesn't exist outside of our consciousness, while also being the most important and valued thing, it is quite the paradox of independence. Human society has a wide variety of cultural norms around this too. Being banished from the group into the wilderness was a death sentence in recent human history. It kept people in check and helped with survival of the group. Now we have instant access to life's needs and wants to the point where we take each other for granted. Our independent spirit can be a curse if taken too far. It's part of our DNA to need each other. For example a newborn can die if unheld for too long.
fnordpiglet 4y ago
The motivating example here was the statement of “I’m not going to be hurt by disease X so I will do nothing to prevent harm to others who are impacted by the diseases spread.” This isn’t self interest. This is selfishness. They gain nothing by helping others than avoiding minor inconveniences. I would also note that major religions revolve on explaining the differences and providing a vantage for judging the boundaries between self interest and selfishness. The fact some selfish people exploit the ambiguities, or even the inefficiencies of selflessness does not obviate in any way the teaching of the religion. Just demonstrates that pursuing a selfless life doesn’t imply lack of critical thought.
- SamPatt 4y ago
  >They gain nothing by helping others than avoiding minor inconveniences. The example was vaccination. Vaccine side effects are sometimes far more than minor inconveniences. Failing to acknowledge this fact is disingenuous. You can blame selfishness, but there are many other explanations.

di456 4y ago

"Poison" is hyperbole but I read it as ego. Coming from an exclusively ego-centric place generally doesn't lead to the best outcomes in life. Unchecked ego is part of narcissism spectrum. We all have some of it. Extreme narcissism is a cancer in modern culture. Maybe that's what OP meant by poison.

fnordpiglet 4y ago
The poison I meant is the difference between communal animals and human society. The root of why we are so noxious and odious a beast is the self, and a lack of realization the self doesn’t exist as it’s impermanent and ever changing. But I give away my doctrine here :-)
- di456 4y ago
  I appreciate the perspective. If the self doesn't exist outside of our consciousness, while also being the most important and valued thing, it is quite the paradox of independence. Human society has a wide variety of cultural norms around this too. Being banished from the group into the wilderness was a death sentence in recent human history. It kept people in check and helped with survival of the group. Now we have instant access to life's needs and wants to the point where we take each other for granted. Our independent spirit can be a curse if taken too far. It's part of our DNA to need each other. For example a newborn can die if unheld for too long.

fnordpiglet 4y ago

The motivating example here was the statement of “I’m not going to be hurt by disease X so I will do nothing to prevent harm to others who are impacted by the diseases spread.” This isn’t self interest. This is selfishness. They gain nothing by helping others than avoiding minor inconveniences. I would also note that major religions revolve on explaining the differences and providing a vantage for judging the boundaries between self interest and selfishness. The fact some selfish people exploit the ambiguities, or even the inefficiencies of selflessness does not obviate in any way the teaching of the religion. Just demonstrates that pursuing a selfless life doesn’t imply lack of critical thought.

SamPatt 4y ago
>They gain nothing by helping others than avoiding minor inconveniences. The example was vaccination. Vaccine side effects are sometimes far more than minor inconveniences. Failing to acknowledge this fact is disingenuous. You can blame selfishness, but there are many other explanations.