4 ms·

> > I think a lot of the libertarian techies are still pretty libertarian. > You don't really see this on HN though. Spot on! I have a weird interest in the

by csdvrx 4y ago

> > I think a lot of the libertarian techies are still pretty libertarian. > You don't really see this on HN though. Spot on! I have a weird interest in the old-times, when geek were actually libertarian? (well, based on my readings and what people told me, they seemed to be different from now) And it's not just the people: instead of "safe" languages like rust, people liked "unsafe" perl that let you do about everything! I really wish there was some time travel, to get the chance to live and work in the 1990s-early 2000s where there seemed to be both optimism AND libertarianism in the tech world, instead of the current pro-big-government/social conformity trend. But since tech is now mostly fueled by advertising $$, it is difficult to get techies to understand something, when their salary depends on them not understanding it.

082349872349872 4y ago
In the early 90's we thought the net would change the world, but what actually happened is the world changed the net.
- csdvrx 4y ago
  > In the early 90's we thought the net would change the world, but what actually happened is the world changed the net. To me it seems to be a bit of both? BTW having read a bit of your other comments, I find your analyses both insightful and introspective. You seem to be from the EU and to have worked in tech during the 1990s. Have you lived in the US too? Can you tell me more about how you saw things change in the US and the EU from then to know? I have some weird interest in old tech: hardware like Thinkpads, software like Perl... but the culture is also very foreign and interesting. I just watched a documentary about "Dinosaurs" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaurs_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaurs_(TV_series) and it seems so modern yet quaint? I want to know more from the viewpoint of someone who lived in that era!
  - 082349872349872 4y ago
    Well, that's a big question; hope you don't mind if I reflect a bit before attempting to answer! (any specific qs, go ahead and I'll do my best) I was living in the US in the 80s and 90s (among which, both in Silicon Valley and in "flyover" country, with non-domicile tours in Boston, Seattle, and the DC Beltway) Have you read Microserfs yet? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microserfs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microserfs It's a pretty good capture of our Zeitgeist. In fact, I distinctly remember one day when I was at my desk, and two of my colleagues were enjoying the afternoon sun on the balcony of my office. We had started to discuss Microserfs, through the open window next to my desk, and one of them remarked: "it's pretty accurate ... except they're all dating within the company". One year or so later, the company had grown by a factor of two or three, and it turns out Coupland had indeed called it in advance: all three of us were then in intra-company relationships. (which was again, a topic of balcony discussion) (sorry, no idea about Dinosaurs: we were working extreme hours [some days the company was comping us ~$2'000/day (in 2023 USD), which was considered very good money back then for "kids" not many years out of uni], and except for attending watch parties for Simpsons, Beavis & Butthead, and Spike & Mike's when it came through town, I was not getting much pop culture exposure during these years) Another anecdote: our landlord once complained that the janitor had found porno mags in the restrooms, and as the other tenants were law firms, maybe they might have been from us, possibly one of our contractors? My boss, indignant, called them up and she asked them if they knew we were an internet company? With a T1 connection? How could they possibly think any of us would still be paying for porn on dead trees?
    - csdvrx 4y ago
      > Well, that's a big question; hope you don't mind if I reflect a bit before attempting to answer! Not at all, please take your time! And if you have more insights, feel free to post them later! I'll check again the comments for the next few days, because all this is so intriguing to me! > I was living in the US in the 80s and 90s This begs many questions: where you born here? Where do you live now? (and ...why?) > Have you read Microserfs yet? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microserfs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microserfs > It's a pretty good capture of our Zeitgeist I haven't but if it's a good capture of the 1990s zeitgeist, I will! > (any specific qs, go ahead and I'll do my best) Besides the lack of optimism, what are the other differences between now and then that stand out to you?
  - 082349872349872 4y ago
    > ...and [Dinosaurs] seems so modern yet quaint? Q for you: anything in particular that was modern yet quaint? CRTs? phones?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
watwut 4y ago
Having lived in 1990s-early 2000s, there was definitive system of codes you had to conform to in order to be "in" or socially accepted. And "expected" sets of both behaviors and opinions you was expected to have. I mean following very genuinely: if everyone has to claim he is libertarian, then what you have is group thing.
ROTMetro 4y ago
90s geeks were as often as not listening to Pacifica radio in the office. We did have a conference room with Star Trek TNG videos playing at lunch. So we did have optimism for the future (a big government controlled optimistic future at that). If you are looking across the river and seeing the green grass and wishing 'if only you play there' remember, when you get up close, that grass in the park is filled with dog shit.

by csdvrx 4y ago

082349872349872 4y ago

In the early 90's we thought the net would change the world, but what actually happened is the world changed the net.

csdvrx 4y ago
> In the early 90's we thought the net would change the world, but what actually happened is the world changed the net. To me it seems to be a bit of both? BTW having read a bit of your other comments, I find your analyses both insightful and introspective. You seem to be from the EU and to have worked in tech during the 1990s. Have you lived in the US too? Can you tell me more about how you saw things change in the US and the EU from then to know? I have some weird interest in old tech: hardware like Thinkpads, software like Perl... but the culture is also very foreign and interesting. I just watched a documentary about "Dinosaurs" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaurs_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaurs_(TV_series) and it seems so modern yet quaint? I want to know more from the viewpoint of someone who lived in that era!
- 082349872349872 4y ago
  Well, that's a big question; hope you don't mind if I reflect a bit before attempting to answer! (any specific qs, go ahead and I'll do my best) I was living in the US in the 80s and 90s (among which, both in Silicon Valley and in "flyover" country, with non-domicile tours in Boston, Seattle, and the DC Beltway) Have you read Microserfs yet? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microserfs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microserfs It's a pretty good capture of our Zeitgeist. In fact, I distinctly remember one day when I was at my desk, and two of my colleagues were enjoying the afternoon sun on the balcony of my office. We had started to discuss Microserfs, through the open window next to my desk, and one of them remarked: "it's pretty accurate ... except they're all dating within the company". One year or so later, the company had grown by a factor of two or three, and it turns out Coupland had indeed called it in advance: all three of us were then in intra-company relationships. (which was again, a topic of balcony discussion) (sorry, no idea about Dinosaurs: we were working extreme hours [some days the company was comping us ~$2'000/day (in 2023 USD), which was considered very good money back then for "kids" not many years out of uni], and except for attending watch parties for Simpsons, Beavis & Butthead, and Spike & Mike's when it came through town, I was not getting much pop culture exposure during these years) Another anecdote: our landlord once complained that the janitor had found porno mags in the restrooms, and as the other tenants were law firms, maybe they might have been from us, possibly one of our contractors? My boss, indignant, called them up and she asked them if they knew we were an internet company? With a T1 connection? How could they possibly think any of us would still be paying for porn on dead trees?
  - csdvrx 4y ago
    > Well, that's a big question; hope you don't mind if I reflect a bit before attempting to answer! Not at all, please take your time! And if you have more insights, feel free to post them later! I'll check again the comments for the next few days, because all this is so intriguing to me! > I was living in the US in the 80s and 90s This begs many questions: where you born here? Where do you live now? (and ...why?) > Have you read Microserfs yet? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microserfs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microserfs > It's a pretty good capture of our Zeitgeist I haven't but if it's a good capture of the 1990s zeitgeist, I will! > (any specific qs, go ahead and I'll do my best) Besides the lack of optimism, what are the other differences between now and then that stand out to you?
- 082349872349872 4y ago
  > ...and [Dinosaurs] seems so modern yet quaint? Q for you: anything in particular that was modern yet quaint? CRTs? phones?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

watwut 4y ago

Having lived in 1990s-early 2000s, there was definitive system of codes you had to conform to in order to be "in" or socially accepted. And "expected" sets of both behaviors and opinions you was expected to have. I mean following very genuinely: if everyone has to claim he is libertarian, then what you have is group thing.

ROTMetro 4y ago

90s geeks were as often as not listening to Pacifica radio in the office. We did have a conference room with Star Trek TNG videos playing at lunch. So we did have optimism for the future (a big government controlled optimistic future at that). If you are looking across the river and seeing the green grass and wishing 'if only you play there' remember, when you get up close, that grass in the park is filled with dog shit.