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As a gigging musician, it’s blown my mind how far digital effects have come, specifically amps and pedals. For years I had a fairly extensive collection of peda

by roblh 4y ago

As a gigging musician, it’s blown my mind how far digital effects have come, specifically amps and pedals. For years I had a fairly extensive collection of pedals, which has now been almost completely replaced by a Line 6 helix pedal that does absolutely everything. People are never gonna stop using analog pedals cause they’re a ton of fun, but from a purely practical perspective, we’re finally at the point where modelling really is indistinguishable from the real thing.

sickcodebruh 4y ago
Same! I recently acquired a Fractal FM3, the most basic floor version of their Axe FX3, and it won me over very quickly. I’ve been a tube amp purist for many years but this thing sounds so good and simplified my live and recording workflows dramatically. Even without its magically incredible effects, it was amazing, but I was blown away when I started digging deeper.
- krat0sprakhar 4y ago
  Acquired the Fractal FM3 last month as well and it has been amazing. So much to explore and learn! I really feel this is easily the best time to be guitar player. So much awesome gear that is easily accessible. I love it!
  - jimnotgym 4y ago
    > I really feel this is easily the best time to be guitar player. I tell you what I'll trade you the gear for the chance to play the Marquis club in the 60's! There was so much to learn about what guitars could do back then.
- eweise 4y ago
  I don't know. I just listened to some it examples on the web and the cleanish sounds still don't match the sound of a real amp to my ears. Although if was in a cover band, I'd definitely use one since it can cover so many different sounds.
  - balfirevic 4y ago
    Are you comparing it to the mic'd sound of the real amp?
    - eweise 4y ago
      Yes. Also there may be much better bass amp simulators out there, but the ones that come with logic don't come anywhere close to the sound I get direct from my Mesa TT-800.
stev-0 4y ago
It isn’t. People saying modeling is indistinguishable from analog gear are just incorrect. For a touring musician the modeling route is just WAY better. Recalling your sound night after night without working with sensitive and fiddle equipment great.The bottleneck for sound quality is always FoH and never your rig. A Kemper or helix is the better option for nearly everyone. That being said, I wouldn’t ever use modeling in the studio. Stumbling upon a great sound when exploring doesn’t happen in the same way. Editing patches becomes a chore and analysis paralysis becomes a force of destruction. Recalling that sound in a live setting though…
- djaychela 4y ago
  >It isn’t. People saying modeling is indistinguishable from analog gear are just incorrect. I hear this a lot, but I've never actually seen any proper testing done on this. Personally, I think the early stuff (Digitech 2120, etc) wasn't good enough. I did use it (and loved it when gigging for exactly the reasons you outline) and it was great, but there were some elements of it that weren't as good as the 'real' thing. Ironically the Wah was the weakest part of that particular rack unit, and it was the only analogue thing in there! However, now I don't think there's any reason why you'd take the stomp boxes over a Helix. I've done some back-to-back testing with some of the pieces of gear, and I can't tell the difference. I agree about editing - it's certainly not the same experience as a bunch of pedals, but in every other area, it's a no-brainer for me, including in the studio.
  - brudgers 4y ago
    To me, most of digital versus analog arguments are more this-is-better-for-me than anything else. I mean an old friend just linked me their bandcamp. It has a few dozen songs that sound great. Turns out half were made with only a Kaossillator Pro. The other half with only an original Kaossillator. Working that way wouldn’t work for me, but it works for Sy. And ordinary folks would say that’s a poor way to make songs.
  - TheCleric 4y ago
    Completely agree. I coincidentally got through the King of Tone wait-list right after the Helix released its update with its own version. I hooked them up side by side and they both sounded great. So I sold the KoT to a friend at cost.
jcpst 4y ago
> we’re finally at the point where modelling really is indistinguishable from the real thing. I’d love to experience this, but so far it still seems like the technology is more in the “good enough for most people/situations” rather than indistinguishable.
- etse 4y ago
  What about the modeling sound in particular fails indistinguishable? My ears aren't trained enough.
  - jcpst 4y ago
    This was mentioned is a sibling comment, but I’ll 2nd that it matters more on a bluesy/rock style tone. It’s right when the power amp is starting to get saturated. On a modeling amp, I have not heard one that doesn’t introduce extra digital artifacts into the tone. It’s like the difference between GCI and IRL. Another is on the other end of the amplitude spectrum, very quiet playing, where I hear extra digital artifacts introduced. As the other poster mentioned though, these differences may not come across at all in a metal/pop setting.
  - markmark 4y ago
    Everyone thinks they can tell the difference until they do a blind test.
    - jcpst 4y ago
      That is true- this is a good callout. You’re brain does a lot to convince you of the difference when you know the source of what you’re hearing. But there are always exceptions. As someone that worked as a recording engineer for 7 years, and spent time intentionally training my ears with blind tests, I can tell you that there is a definite aural difference between a real tube guitar amp and a modeling amp. Other recording engineers I assisted could hear it too.
- jimnotgym 4y ago
  In my limited experience(and I haven't tried the expensive stuff like Kemper or Neural dsp), the difference is most apparent to the player in the way amp and effects react to playing dynamics. For a blues player sat 'on the edge of overdrive' the effect of injecting emotion into ones playing comes through the amp in a way I couldn't get with a digital amp. This the affects the players response. I feel like a million dollars through my Fender Twin. I close my eyes and channel my Stevie Ray. It didn't happen to me through a Boss Katana. If you were paying to listen to me (as if), you would get better vfm from the tube amp. If I played metal, or was backing a pop group, one pedal di'd to the desk sounds like the dream
vibrolax 4y ago
I used an Alesis Quadraverb GT with an ART X-11 midi foot switch since 1991. I love great sounding pedals as much as the next guitarist, but I really didn't enjoy the care and feeding of a pedal board (those were pretty much all DIY in that era). The Alesis is still working 100% at age 32.

by roblh 4y ago

sickcodebruh 4y ago

Same! I recently acquired a Fractal FM3, the most basic floor version of their Axe FX3, and it won me over very quickly. I’ve been a tube amp purist for many years but this thing sounds so good and simplified my live and recording workflows dramatically. Even without its magically incredible effects, it was amazing, but I was blown away when I started digging deeper.

krat0sprakhar 4y ago
Acquired the Fractal FM3 last month as well and it has been amazing. So much to explore and learn! I really feel this is easily the best time to be guitar player. So much awesome gear that is easily accessible. I love it!
- jimnotgym 4y ago
  > I really feel this is easily the best time to be guitar player. I tell you what I'll trade you the gear for the chance to play the Marquis club in the 60's! There was so much to learn about what guitars could do back then.
eweise 4y ago
I don't know. I just listened to some it examples on the web and the cleanish sounds still don't match the sound of a real amp to my ears. Although if was in a cover band, I'd definitely use one since it can cover so many different sounds.
- balfirevic 4y ago
  Are you comparing it to the mic'd sound of the real amp?
  - eweise 4y ago
    Yes. Also there may be much better bass amp simulators out there, but the ones that come with logic don't come anywhere close to the sound I get direct from my Mesa TT-800.

stev-0 4y ago

It isn’t. People saying modeling is indistinguishable from analog gear are just incorrect. For a touring musician the modeling route is just WAY better. Recalling your sound night after night without working with sensitive and fiddle equipment great.The bottleneck for sound quality is always FoH and never your rig. A Kemper or helix is the better option for nearly everyone. That being said, I wouldn’t ever use modeling in the studio. Stumbling upon a great sound when exploring doesn’t happen in the same way. Editing patches becomes a chore and analysis paralysis becomes a force of destruction. Recalling that sound in a live setting though…

djaychela 4y ago
>It isn’t. People saying modeling is indistinguishable from analog gear are just incorrect. I hear this a lot, but I've never actually seen any proper testing done on this. Personally, I think the early stuff (Digitech 2120, etc) wasn't good enough. I did use it (and loved it when gigging for exactly the reasons you outline) and it was great, but there were some elements of it that weren't as good as the 'real' thing. Ironically the Wah was the weakest part of that particular rack unit, and it was the only analogue thing in there! However, now I don't think there's any reason why you'd take the stomp boxes over a Helix. I've done some back-to-back testing with some of the pieces of gear, and I can't tell the difference. I agree about editing - it's certainly not the same experience as a bunch of pedals, but in every other area, it's a no-brainer for me, including in the studio.
- brudgers 4y ago
  To me, most of digital versus analog arguments are more this-is-better-for-me than anything else. I mean an old friend just linked me their bandcamp. It has a few dozen songs that sound great. Turns out half were made with only a Kaossillator Pro. The other half with only an original Kaossillator. Working that way wouldn’t work for me, but it works for Sy. And ordinary folks would say that’s a poor way to make songs.
- TheCleric 4y ago
  Completely agree. I coincidentally got through the King of Tone wait-list right after the Helix released its update with its own version. I hooked them up side by side and they both sounded great. So I sold the KoT to a friend at cost.

jcpst 4y ago

> we’re finally at the point where modelling really is indistinguishable from the real thing. I’d love to experience this, but so far it still seems like the technology is more in the “good enough for most people/situations” rather than indistinguishable.

etse 4y ago
What about the modeling sound in particular fails indistinguishable? My ears aren't trained enough.
- jcpst 4y ago
  This was mentioned is a sibling comment, but I’ll 2nd that it matters more on a bluesy/rock style tone. It’s right when the power amp is starting to get saturated. On a modeling amp, I have not heard one that doesn’t introduce extra digital artifacts into the tone. It’s like the difference between GCI and IRL. Another is on the other end of the amplitude spectrum, very quiet playing, where I hear extra digital artifacts introduced. As the other poster mentioned though, these differences may not come across at all in a metal/pop setting.
- markmark 4y ago
  Everyone thinks they can tell the difference until they do a blind test.
  - jcpst 4y ago
    That is true- this is a good callout. You’re brain does a lot to convince you of the difference when you know the source of what you’re hearing. But there are always exceptions. As someone that worked as a recording engineer for 7 years, and spent time intentionally training my ears with blind tests, I can tell you that there is a definite aural difference between a real tube guitar amp and a modeling amp. Other recording engineers I assisted could hear it too.
jimnotgym 4y ago
In my limited experience(and I haven't tried the expensive stuff like Kemper or Neural dsp), the difference is most apparent to the player in the way amp and effects react to playing dynamics. For a blues player sat 'on the edge of overdrive' the effect of injecting emotion into ones playing comes through the amp in a way I couldn't get with a digital amp. This the affects the players response. I feel like a million dollars through my Fender Twin. I close my eyes and channel my Stevie Ray. It didn't happen to me through a Boss Katana. If you were paying to listen to me (as if), you would get better vfm from the tube amp. If I played metal, or was backing a pop group, one pedal di'd to the desk sounds like the dream

vibrolax 4y ago

I used an Alesis Quadraverb GT with an ART X-11 midi foot switch since 1991. I love great sounding pedals as much as the next guitarist, but I really didn't enjoy the care and feeding of a pedal board (those were pretty much all DIY in that era). The Alesis is still working 100% at age 32.