4 ms·

I think it would be fair to say meat lacks nutrition if it were advertised as an orange substitute. That’s the “context” you’re talking about. Meat substitutes

by rcme 4y ago

I think it would be fair to say meat lacks nutrition if it were advertised as an orange substitute. That’s the “context” you’re talking about. Meat substitutes aren’t true substitutes for meat without bio-available iron.

BobbyJo 4y ago
'Vegitarian Meat', if we are talking about it's role in a diet, is a flavor/texture substitute, not a nutritional substitute. If it wasn't about the flavor, there would be pretty much no reason to buy it. If you want to pretend it is a nutritional substitute for meat, people on average suffer much more from too much, as opposed to too little, of what meat has, so it's still not really a problem.
- rcme 4y ago
  I don't think you can really separate nutrition from flavor/texture. For instance, I cook dinner for my children every night. I want to cook tasty, flavorful food, but I also want my kids to receive adequate nutrition. Perhaps one day I'm at the store and see a meat substitute that's better for the environment. I think it's important to understand that, nutritionally, the substitute is deficient compared to meat. This is a very common thing that comes up with nut "milks." You can find an endless stream of graphs and charts that highlight how much better nut "milks" are compared to cows milk. However, the graphs never ever ever include a comparison of the nutrient content. Sure, you can say adults get too much of everything, but the same is not true for children. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends 2-3 8oz cups of milk a day for children under 5. It would be a equivalent to give your children nut "milk" instead.
  - BobbyJo 4y ago
    > I don't think you can really separate nutrition from flavor/texture. You shouldn't, but you most certainly can. Cake and cookies exist. Also, you're just hand-waving away the fact that most adults in the US don't suffer from malnutrition, and the one that do often eat lots of meat. A healthy diet is just as much about what you aren't eating.
Retric 4y ago
I don’t think vegetarians are really looking for Iron as Spinach provides as much as Meat. Meat substitutes are about flavor and mouth feel not nutrition, but for those with excess iron (Hemochromatosis) I am sure they will appreciate the option. Which again shows how nutrition exists in context not isolation.
- rcme 4y ago
  That study is in rats. Non-heme iron (i.e. the iron in spinach) has repeatedly been shown to be absorbed poorly in humans. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8207546/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8207546/ > ... studies have shown that the absorption of dietary nonheme iron in rats is much higher and less responsive to dietary variables than in human subjects.
  - Retric 4y ago
    “(Bezwoda, Bothwell, Charlton et al.) the bioavailability of heme iron was measured to be about 20%, while the availability of non-heme iron varied between 6% and 18% depending on the amount of iron present in the meal.” Spinach has dramatically more Iron than Beef does so being absorbed at a lower ratio is offset by a much larger quantity of Iron being in the food.
    - rcme 4y ago
      2.5X per unit weight… so the get the amount of iron in a 1/4 cheeseburger you’d need to eat 0.5-1 pounds of spinach. Possible, but hard.
      - Retric 4y ago
        How did you calculate that? If it’s got 2.5x as much and Bioavailability of iron in beef is ~20% and non beef ranges from 6% to 18% then… Worse case 2.5x * 0.06 / 0.20 = 75% as much per unit weight so you need 1/3 of a pound of Spinach. Best case was 2.5x * 0.18 / 0.2 = 225% so you need 1/9th of a pound. I am not saying your wrong, I just don’t get how you did that calculation.
bastawhiz 4y ago
The point is that the consumers who are purchasing vegetarian meats are probably either: 1. Already vegetarian and the vegetarian meat isn't replacing foods with those nutrients because the rest of their diet already covers it 2. Omnivores looking to remove some meat from their diets, who are still getting iron and zinc from the meat that they do consume For a variety of reasons, essentially nobody is finding themselves subsisting on a diet where vegetarian meats replace their only (or primary) sources of iron and zinc.

by rcme 4y ago

BobbyJo 4y ago

'Vegitarian Meat', if we are talking about it's role in a diet, is a flavor/texture substitute, not a nutritional substitute. If it wasn't about the flavor, there would be pretty much no reason to buy it. If you want to pretend it is a nutritional substitute for meat, people on average suffer much more from too much, as opposed to too little, of what meat has, so it's still not really a problem.

rcme 4y ago
I don't think you can really separate nutrition from flavor/texture. For instance, I cook dinner for my children every night. I want to cook tasty, flavorful food, but I also want my kids to receive adequate nutrition. Perhaps one day I'm at the store and see a meat substitute that's better for the environment. I think it's important to understand that, nutritionally, the substitute is deficient compared to meat. This is a very common thing that comes up with nut "milks." You can find an endless stream of graphs and charts that highlight how much better nut "milks" are compared to cows milk. However, the graphs never ever ever include a comparison of the nutrient content. Sure, you can say adults get too much of everything, but the same is not true for children. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends 2-3 8oz cups of milk a day for children under 5. It would be a equivalent to give your children nut "milk" instead.
- BobbyJo 4y ago
  > I don't think you can really separate nutrition from flavor/texture. You shouldn't, but you most certainly can. Cake and cookies exist. Also, you're just hand-waving away the fact that most adults in the US don't suffer from malnutrition, and the one that do often eat lots of meat. A healthy diet is just as much about what you aren't eating.

Retric 4y ago

I don’t think vegetarians are really looking for Iron as Spinach provides as much as Meat. Meat substitutes are about flavor and mouth feel not nutrition, but for those with excess iron (Hemochromatosis) I am sure they will appreciate the option. Which again shows how nutrition exists in context not isolation.

rcme 4y ago
That study is in rats. Non-heme iron (i.e. the iron in spinach) has repeatedly been shown to be absorbed poorly in humans. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8207546/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8207546/ > ... studies have shown that the absorption of dietary nonheme iron in rats is much higher and less responsive to dietary variables than in human subjects.
- Retric 4y ago
  “(Bezwoda, Bothwell, Charlton et al.) the bioavailability of heme iron was measured to be about 20%, while the availability of non-heme iron varied between 6% and 18% depending on the amount of iron present in the meal.” Spinach has dramatically more Iron than Beef does so being absorbed at a lower ratio is offset by a much larger quantity of Iron being in the food.
  - rcme 4y ago
    2.5X per unit weight… so the get the amount of iron in a 1/4 cheeseburger you’d need to eat 0.5-1 pounds of spinach. Possible, but hard.
    - Retric 4y ago
      How did you calculate that? If it’s got 2.5x as much and Bioavailability of iron in beef is ~20% and non beef ranges from 6% to 18% then… Worse case 2.5x * 0.06 / 0.20 = 75% as much per unit weight so you need 1/3 of a pound of Spinach. Best case was 2.5x * 0.18 / 0.2 = 225% so you need 1/9th of a pound. I am not saying your wrong, I just don’t get how you did that calculation.

bastawhiz 4y ago

The point is that the consumers who are purchasing vegetarian meats are probably either: 1. Already vegetarian and the vegetarian meat isn't replacing foods with those nutrients because the rest of their diet already covers it 2. Omnivores looking to remove some meat from their diets, who are still getting iron and zinc from the meat that they do consume For a variety of reasons, essentially nobody is finding themselves subsisting on a diet where vegetarian meats replace their only (or primary) sources of iron and zinc.