4 ms·

Libertarians tend to take potential solutions to the extreme, but seldom is anything so ideologically pure. Still, the idea that government can protect people

by starkd 4y ago

Libertarians tend to take potential solutions to the extreme, but seldom is anything so ideologically pure. Still, the idea that government can protect people from themselves is a noxious one. Drug legalization is an attractive one for that reason alone, but there are limits. Drug addicts are by definition not rational actors.

rubicon33 4y ago
Presumably they were at one time a “rational actor”. Before the drugs.
porknubbins 4y ago
Yes as libertarian who was offended by the idea of regulating what adults can put in their bodies at home, I have changed my mind after seeing real world consequences. As a young college student its easy to believe some kind of naive model of humans as basically well-intentioned or rational or at least a blank slate. Experience tells me that most illegal drug (and heavy alcohol) use has negative externalities and tends to harm the character of the user over time. An assertion younger me would have probably found offensively moralistic (what is “character” anyway?) but here we are.
- starkd 4y ago
  You just described my history on the subject. I once believed that too.
- water554 4y ago
  So you've decided to support an ideology that restricts the freedom of all people to do as they please because you think it's harmful for them. I've decided >20g per day of carbs is harmful for people that choose to do it. Watch out buddy I'm going for bread pasta etc... I don't think people should be able to eat it. I'm coming for your rights.
  - porknubbins 4y ago
    I think that as a policy matter it is better for society to create an exception to the rule of complete bodily autonomy, mostly because of harm to people around the user. I don’t think users should get jail time but some penalties are ok. This is partly based on personal experience and partially on stats like increasing DUI rates post cannabis legalization. I don’t see much of a slippery slope argument to be made from psychoactive drugs to carbs, which are a basic nutrient anyone can find anywhere.
wahnfrieden 4y ago
the question isn't whether or not a substance should be in use in a society, but whether its users/producers should be caged

by starkd 4y ago

rubicon33 4y ago

Presumably they were at one time a “rational actor”. Before the drugs.

porknubbins 4y ago

Yes as libertarian who was offended by the idea of regulating what adults can put in their bodies at home, I have changed my mind after seeing real world consequences. As a young college student its easy to believe some kind of naive model of humans as basically well-intentioned or rational or at least a blank slate. Experience tells me that most illegal drug (and heavy alcohol) use has negative externalities and tends to harm the character of the user over time. An assertion younger me would have probably found offensively moralistic (what is “character” anyway?) but here we are.

starkd 4y ago
You just described my history on the subject. I once believed that too.
water554 4y ago
So you've decided to support an ideology that restricts the freedom of all people to do as they please because you think it's harmful for them. I've decided >20g per day of carbs is harmful for people that choose to do it. Watch out buddy I'm going for bread pasta etc... I don't think people should be able to eat it. I'm coming for your rights.
- porknubbins 4y ago
  I think that as a policy matter it is better for society to create an exception to the rule of complete bodily autonomy, mostly because of harm to people around the user. I don’t think users should get jail time but some penalties are ok. This is partly based on personal experience and partially on stats like increasing DUI rates post cannabis legalization. I don’t see much of a slippery slope argument to be made from psychoactive drugs to carbs, which are a basic nutrient anyone can find anywhere.

wahnfrieden 4y ago

the question isn't whether or not a substance should be in use in a society, but whether its users/producers should be caged