8 ms·

Hate to raise a cynical tone, but in all likelihood his his longevity is mostly due to him having money. I expect, that in most cases patients with similar moto

Hate to raise a cynical tone, but in all likelihood his his longevity is mostly due to him having money. I expect, that in most cases patients with similar motor neurone diseases, their money simply runs out--unable to afford ongoing medications, care and new treatments, they die from the disease they simply can't afford to treat.

rokhayakebe 15y ago
his longevity is mostly due to him having money You are mostly wrong. It is due to his will to live. Even if I could afford it, I know I do not have the mental strength to go through a life in such situation.
gldalmaso 15y ago
His longevity might also stem from psychological factors, after all he still has the (afforded) means of remaining a productive person, whereas a patient that can't talk or move, much less do productive work, might fall into an increasing depressive mood and that has biological repercussions.
gerggerg 15y ago
If you hate to do it than whats the point? The dude may have the care and the luck to keep him alive but he's also continued to produce jaw dropping work without being able to move much more than his eye balls. He can't eat or defecate or walk or wave or even make facial expressions but has contributed relentlessly to cosmology, theoretical physics, and the education thereof. Regardless of the reasons why he is surviving, he deserves to survive like everyone else. And in the face of the most possible adversity has made the universe a different place to humans and turned countless individuals into skyward dreamers.
- giberson 15y ago
  I was in no way indicating he doesn't deserve to survive or that he hasn't made invaluable contributions to science. >If you hate to do it than whats the point? Mainly my post is counter weighting others that mostly attribute Hawking's longevity as a testimony to will power. It's also subtly defamatory to the relationship of money and health--in that (perhaps unavoidably so) having money greatly enhances one's life expectancy in the face of mortal diseases. That's not to say wealth is a golden ticket that affords you a reprieve from any illness but it certainly helps to prevent you from being lumped in with all the "average" cases, to be one of the uncommon cases that "defies" the usual outcomes.
jganetsk 15y ago
I suspect you are greatly overestimating the power of money in managing motor neurone disease.
- nik61 15y ago
  This is the case, as I have reason to know, and as my mother did before she died of it in 1994. It may have been quite expensive to have diagnosed her as it took a long time and involved a number of procedures. After that nothing could be done at all until she needed palliative and supportive care in her last weeks.
parfe 15y ago
>in all likelihood his his longevity is mostly due to him having money. I think you mean "Socialized Medicine" "I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS," [Hawking] said. "I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived...." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/stephen-hawking-enters-us_n_257343.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/stephen-hawking-ent...
- __alexs 15y ago
  Indeed. I'm sure the multiple dedicated full time assistants and general adoration of everyone around him helps keep him positive too though. It's probably easy to have a pretty terrible quality of life with ALS even if you do have money for medical treatment.
- gnaritas 15y ago
  Yea, you don't need money to be healthy in a civilized country. Someday, America might catch on, but I'm not holding my breath.
  - paulhauggis 15y ago
    "Yea, you don't need money to be healthy in a civilized country." You just need enough other people's money. "Someday, America might catch on, but I'm not holding my breath." Why is it that anyone with any kind of money that needs urgent care comes to the US? I will give you a hint: it's not because of nationalized health care. Our system isn't perfect and is expensive, but in my opinion, it's the best in the world (in terms of quality doctors, surgery, and hospitals).
    - aamar 15y ago
      Why is it that anyone with any kind of money that needs urgent care comes to the US? I will give you a hint: it's not because of nationalized health care. Many of the inbound medical tourists to the U.S. are coming from countries that don't have nationalized health care or are coming because their nationalized health care system is paying most of the cost of their care and trip. Relatively few are buying their way into better care vs. a nationalized health system. Also, the number of inbound U.S. medical tourists is around 70,000[1], while the number of outbound U.S. medical tourists is around 650,000[2] (surgery dominates). There are many factors involved here, but as a basic matter, it would be simpler to say that people leave the U.S. for medical care much more than they visit for it. [1] 2008 number: http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/25/health-hospitals-care-forbeslife-cx_avd_outsourcing08_0529healthoutsourcing.html http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/25/health-hospitals-care-forbe... [2] 2009 number: http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/article1079824.ece http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/article1079824.ece
jsdalton 15y ago
My view is perhaps even more cynical than yours: I think his longevity is primarily due to luck. He also, if I understand correctly, has a different variant of ALS that doesn't progress as quickly. While money might have been a necessary precursor to his achieving such longevity (I doubt he would have made it this far had he not been wealthy), ALS has taken the lives of many, many people poor and rich alike. My stepfather died a few years ago from ALS, and he was fairly wealthy and motivated to fight the disease. Unfortunately, at this stage in our understanding, you can throw all the money and effort at the disease you can muster, but you're not going to beat it.
- jonnathanson 15y ago
  I suspect you're right. Money isn't the issue here; it's luck of the draw. My best friend's father died of ALS two years ago, and like your stepfather, he was very successful, wealthy, and motivated. He was also professionally and personally productive up until the last second. As I recall, his disease progressed like a step function whose "steps" were of indeterminate length. He'd lose some functionality, then remain relatively stable at that level for months on end, then suddenly wake up one morning substantially worse. The process repeated, and there was seemingly no rhyme or reason to the length of the intervals. At any given stage, his doctors said he could last for years, or maybe months, or maybe days, in that condition. [Don't get me wrong; I am extremely glad that Dr. Hawking has survived as long as he has, and I hope that he continues to fight and win.]
  - ams6110 15y ago
    Another vote for this. My mom died of ALS, diagnosed in November at age 75, died the following August. In retrospect she was showing symptoms maybe 12–18 months earlier but the early symptoms in her case were just a gradual decline in strength that we attributed to aging. Not that anything can really be done; there are one or two drugs that have a very minimal (but statistically measurable) benefit, but they are very expensive and while they may slightly extend your life (we are talking perhaps a month or two on average) they don't improve your function. After her diagnosis she attended a few support group meetings, and it was striking at how the disease progressed differently in different people. One man had been diagnosed years earlier and was still able to do work around his farm and house, he seemed almost normal. Others were in wheelchairs and could barely talk, and had been normal only a year earlier. I wouldn't call Hawking lucky as the disease is absolutely a terrible thing, but given that he has it, his remarkable longevity does seem to be on the lucky end of the statistical distribution.
rudiger 15y ago
There's evidence that "brain activity" can slow the progression of neurological disorders, particularly those that selectively affect motor neurones. I'd argue that Hawking's incredible utilization of his brain, staying active as a theoretical physicist, has helped to keep his disease from overwhelming him.
rmc 15y ago
For the record (since some USA newspapers were reporting the opposite), Stephen Hawking is from the UK with the NHS (what can be called 'socialized healthcare' in the USA, and 'public health system' in EU).
ams6110 15y ago
You are wrong. There is very little that medicine can do for ALS sufferers. With more research, perhaps this will change, but for now money has very little bearing on the outcome of this disease.

rokhayakebe 15y ago

his longevity is mostly due to him having money You are mostly wrong. It is due to his will to live. Even if I could afford it, I know I do not have the mental strength to go through a life in such situation.

gldalmaso 15y ago

His longevity might also stem from psychological factors, after all he still has the (afforded) means of remaining a productive person, whereas a patient that can't talk or move, much less do productive work, might fall into an increasing depressive mood and that has biological repercussions.

gerggerg 15y ago

If you hate to do it than whats the point? The dude may have the care and the luck to keep him alive but he's also continued to produce jaw dropping work without being able to move much more than his eye balls. He can't eat or defecate or walk or wave or even make facial expressions but has contributed relentlessly to cosmology, theoretical physics, and the education thereof. Regardless of the reasons why he is surviving, he deserves to survive like everyone else. And in the face of the most possible adversity has made the universe a different place to humans and turned countless individuals into skyward dreamers.

giberson 15y ago
I was in no way indicating he doesn't deserve to survive or that he hasn't made invaluable contributions to science. >If you hate to do it than whats the point? Mainly my post is counter weighting others that mostly attribute Hawking's longevity as a testimony to will power. It's also subtly defamatory to the relationship of money and health--in that (perhaps unavoidably so) having money greatly enhances one's life expectancy in the face of mortal diseases. That's not to say wealth is a golden ticket that affords you a reprieve from any illness but it certainly helps to prevent you from being lumped in with all the "average" cases, to be one of the uncommon cases that "defies" the usual outcomes.

jganetsk 15y ago

I suspect you are greatly overestimating the power of money in managing motor neurone disease.

nik61 15y ago
This is the case, as I have reason to know, and as my mother did before she died of it in 1994. It may have been quite expensive to have diagnosed her as it took a long time and involved a number of procedures. After that nothing could be done at all until she needed palliative and supportive care in her last weeks.

parfe 15y ago

>in all likelihood his his longevity is mostly due to him having money. I think you mean "Socialized Medicine" "I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS," [Hawking] said. "I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived...." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/stephen-hawking-enters-us_n_257343.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/stephen-hawking-ent...

__alexs 15y ago
Indeed. I'm sure the multiple dedicated full time assistants and general adoration of everyone around him helps keep him positive too though. It's probably easy to have a pretty terrible quality of life with ALS even if you do have money for medical treatment.
gnaritas 15y ago
Yea, you don't need money to be healthy in a civilized country. Someday, America might catch on, but I'm not holding my breath.
- paulhauggis 15y ago
  "Yea, you don't need money to be healthy in a civilized country." You just need enough other people's money. "Someday, America might catch on, but I'm not holding my breath." Why is it that anyone with any kind of money that needs urgent care comes to the US? I will give you a hint: it's not because of nationalized health care. Our system isn't perfect and is expensive, but in my opinion, it's the best in the world (in terms of quality doctors, surgery, and hospitals).
  - aamar 15y ago
    Why is it that anyone with any kind of money that needs urgent care comes to the US? I will give you a hint: it's not because of nationalized health care. Many of the inbound medical tourists to the U.S. are coming from countries that don't have nationalized health care or are coming because their nationalized health care system is paying most of the cost of their care and trip. Relatively few are buying their way into better care vs. a nationalized health system. Also, the number of inbound U.S. medical tourists is around 70,000[1], while the number of outbound U.S. medical tourists is around 650,000[2] (surgery dominates). There are many factors involved here, but as a basic matter, it would be simpler to say that people leave the U.S. for medical care much more than they visit for it. [1] 2008 number: http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/25/health-hospitals-care-forbeslife-cx_avd_outsourcing08_0529healthoutsourcing.html http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/25/health-hospitals-care-forbe... [2] 2009 number: http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/article1079824.ece http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/article1079824.ece

jsdalton 15y ago

My view is perhaps even more cynical than yours: I think his longevity is primarily due to luck. He also, if I understand correctly, has a different variant of ALS that doesn't progress as quickly. While money might have been a necessary precursor to his achieving such longevity (I doubt he would have made it this far had he not been wealthy), ALS has taken the lives of many, many people poor and rich alike. My stepfather died a few years ago from ALS, and he was fairly wealthy and motivated to fight the disease. Unfortunately, at this stage in our understanding, you can throw all the money and effort at the disease you can muster, but you're not going to beat it.

jonnathanson 15y ago
I suspect you're right. Money isn't the issue here; it's luck of the draw. My best friend's father died of ALS two years ago, and like your stepfather, he was very successful, wealthy, and motivated. He was also professionally and personally productive up until the last second. As I recall, his disease progressed like a step function whose "steps" were of indeterminate length. He'd lose some functionality, then remain relatively stable at that level for months on end, then suddenly wake up one morning substantially worse. The process repeated, and there was seemingly no rhyme or reason to the length of the intervals. At any given stage, his doctors said he could last for years, or maybe months, or maybe days, in that condition. [Don't get me wrong; I am extremely glad that Dr. Hawking has survived as long as he has, and I hope that he continues to fight and win.]
- ams6110 15y ago
  Another vote for this. My mom died of ALS, diagnosed in November at age 75, died the following August. In retrospect she was showing symptoms maybe 12–18 months earlier but the early symptoms in her case were just a gradual decline in strength that we attributed to aging. Not that anything can really be done; there are one or two drugs that have a very minimal (but statistically measurable) benefit, but they are very expensive and while they may slightly extend your life (we are talking perhaps a month or two on average) they don't improve your function. After her diagnosis she attended a few support group meetings, and it was striking at how the disease progressed differently in different people. One man had been diagnosed years earlier and was still able to do work around his farm and house, he seemed almost normal. Others were in wheelchairs and could barely talk, and had been normal only a year earlier. I wouldn't call Hawking lucky as the disease is absolutely a terrible thing, but given that he has it, his remarkable longevity does seem to be on the lucky end of the statistical distribution.

rudiger 15y ago

There's evidence that "brain activity" can slow the progression of neurological disorders, particularly those that selectively affect motor neurones. I'd argue that Hawking's incredible utilization of his brain, staying active as a theoretical physicist, has helped to keep his disease from overwhelming him.

rmc 15y ago

For the record (since some USA newspapers were reporting the opposite), Stephen Hawking is from the UK with the NHS (what can be called 'socialized healthcare' in the USA, and 'public health system' in EU).

ams6110 15y ago

You are wrong. There is very little that medicine can do for ALS sufferers. With more research, perhaps this will change, but for now money has very little bearing on the outcome of this disease.