4 ms·

The optical resolution of racemic amphetamine/methamphetamine has been known for years. https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/amphetamine.resolution.htm

The optical resolution of racemic amphetamine/methamphetamine has been known for years. https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/amphetamine.resolution.html https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/amphetamine.res... What has surprised me is how infrequently it seems to be carried out, given the materials required for it. This is all you need: - D-Tartaric Acid (You can buy it from import sites in bulk for $30-60/kg) - Lye/Sodrium Hydroxide - Ethanol/Everclear (if you're converting meth, you'll also need Methanol) - Glassware - Distilled Water The process is stupid-simple and takes a matter of hours, any idiot could do it, and the difference it makes in effects (racemic vs optically-pure D-Amphetamine vs D-Methamphetamine) is obscene. It seems like many of the clandestine chemists are behind the curve in the same way that LAMP-stack shops are in terms of the HN crowd in tech. Source: Originally was an organic chemistry major with an intent to pursue psychopharmacology

logifail 4y ago
> The process is stupid-simple and takes a matter of hours, any idiot could do it, and the difference it makes in effects (racemic vs optically-pure D-Amphetamine vs D-Methamphetamine) is obscene (My organic chemistry is very rusty, and my knowledge of amphetamines is non-existant.) I'm assuming from what you wrote that the D- enantiomer is one you want. What does the L- enantiomer do, if anything?
- gavinray 4y ago
  The L-enantiomer is actually readily available for purchase over-the-counter. Vicks Vapor rub/inhalers and other decongestants use L-methamphetamine. The D-enantiomer causes CNS stimulation. The L-enantiomer causes only PNS (Peripheral Nervous System) stimulation, so it produces no euphoria or enjoyable effects. Only unpleasant side effects, like tachycardia and anxiety, etc. This is why racemic amphetamine/methamphetamine is so (comparatively) unpleasant, and the pure D-enantiomer is superior and "cleaner" feeling. Racemic amphetamines have a much higher chance of inducing psychosis.
  - programmer_dude 4y ago
    FWIW I find the Vicks Vapor rub fumes enjoyable and euphoria inducing. Edit: I think it's the eucalyptus oil that I am reacting to.
    - astrange 4y ago
      It's also well known as a miracle cure to various demographics of grandmas.
  - klipt 4y ago
    The active ingredients in Vicks Vapo Rub are just: Camphor Eucalyptus oil Menthol Perhaps you're thinking of a different Vicks product?
    - gavinray 4y ago
      Ah it's just the inhalers then, my mistake Another interesting one found in inhalers is Propylhexedrine, from Benzedrex inhalers
  - sizzle 4y ago
    Is this the difference between Adderall and Dexedrine?
    - gavinray 4y ago
      Yeah, Adderall is "Mixed-isomer amphetamine salt", it's a "proprietary" blend of 80/20 dextro/levo.
gpcr1949 4y ago
Agreed the process is very simple. The innovation that makes the resolution worth it is (as Derek also mentioned in the blog post) an efficient way to re-racemize the L-meth to DL-meth, which can then be resolved again. With steady state production and pooling this means it can be done using just one batch size (and not ever smaller "brsm" style bathces). If these steps are efficient enough you definitely get much more bang for your buck. Here is one such method[0] which probably inspired these drug manufacturers (as they use thioglycol and AIBN, which has been found in clandestine lab seizures). [0] https://sci-hub.se/10.1021/jo061033l https://sci-hub.se/10.1021/jo061033l (published in JOC in 2006 - so only a mere 2 decades behind the curve)
- gavinray 4y ago
  Oh wow, now this is interesting. To ELI5 this, what the commenter is saying is that you can take the "useless" L-Meth, and convert it to racemic, mixed D/L Meth. Which you can then perform a second resolution step on, to convert/purify further, to the opposite chirality and get D-Meth. The very interesting thing about this (if I were a clandestine chemist, or someone who wanted to get high at home), is that: - AIBN is a readily available reagent, it's not difficult to acquire or would put you on any lists. This is in comparison to much of what you need for other synthesis techniques - You can buy L-Meth legally over the counter. The extraction process would be a bit of a mess (quite literally) but should be doable, some basic recrystallization and/or conversion to freebase.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - hinoki 4y ago
    To further ELI5, racemic means a mixture of left handed (Dextrorotatory) and right handed (Laevorotatory) versions of the same compound. Some molecules can have two different shapes that are mirror images of each other, and these different shapes can interact differently with our biology. In this case, the right handed version is available in stores with no prescription, while the left handed version is a very controlled substance.

logifail 4y ago

> The process is stupid-simple and takes a matter of hours, any idiot could do it, and the difference it makes in effects (racemic vs optically-pure D-Amphetamine vs D-Methamphetamine) is obscene (My organic chemistry is very rusty, and my knowledge of amphetamines is non-existant.) I'm assuming from what you wrote that the D- enantiomer is one you want. What does the L- enantiomer do, if anything?

gavinray 4y ago
The L-enantiomer is actually readily available for purchase over-the-counter. Vicks Vapor rub/inhalers and other decongestants use L-methamphetamine. The D-enantiomer causes CNS stimulation. The L-enantiomer causes only PNS (Peripheral Nervous System) stimulation, so it produces no euphoria or enjoyable effects. Only unpleasant side effects, like tachycardia and anxiety, etc. This is why racemic amphetamine/methamphetamine is so (comparatively) unpleasant, and the pure D-enantiomer is superior and "cleaner" feeling. Racemic amphetamines have a much higher chance of inducing psychosis.
- programmer_dude 4y ago
  FWIW I find the Vicks Vapor rub fumes enjoyable and euphoria inducing. Edit: I think it's the eucalyptus oil that I am reacting to.
  - astrange 4y ago
    It's also well known as a miracle cure to various demographics of grandmas.
- klipt 4y ago
  The active ingredients in Vicks Vapo Rub are just: Camphor Eucalyptus oil Menthol Perhaps you're thinking of a different Vicks product?
  - gavinray 4y ago
    Ah it's just the inhalers then, my mistake Another interesting one found in inhalers is Propylhexedrine, from Benzedrex inhalers
- sizzle 4y ago
  Is this the difference between Adderall and Dexedrine?
  - gavinray 4y ago
    Yeah, Adderall is "Mixed-isomer amphetamine salt", it's a "proprietary" blend of 80/20 dextro/levo.

gpcr1949 4y ago

Agreed the process is very simple. The innovation that makes the resolution worth it is (as Derek also mentioned in the blog post) an efficient way to re-racemize the L-meth to DL-meth, which can then be resolved again. With steady state production and pooling this means it can be done using just one batch size (and not ever smaller "brsm" style bathces). If these steps are efficient enough you definitely get much more bang for your buck. Here is one such method[0] which probably inspired these drug manufacturers (as they use thioglycol and AIBN, which has been found in clandestine lab seizures). [0] https://sci-hub.se/10.1021/jo061033l https://sci-hub.se/10.1021/jo061033l (published in JOC in 2006 - so only a mere 2 decades behind the curve)

gavinray 4y ago
Oh wow, now this is interesting. To ELI5 this, what the commenter is saying is that you can take the "useless" L-Meth, and convert it to racemic, mixed D/L Meth. Which you can then perform a second resolution step on, to convert/purify further, to the opposite chirality and get D-Meth. The very interesting thing about this (if I were a clandestine chemist, or someone who wanted to get high at home), is that: - AIBN is a readily available reagent, it's not difficult to acquire or would put you on any lists. This is in comparison to much of what you need for other synthesis techniques - You can buy L-Meth legally over the counter. The extraction process would be a bit of a mess (quite literally) but should be doable, some basic recrystallization and/or conversion to freebase.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- hinoki 4y ago
  To further ELI5, racemic means a mixture of left handed (Dextrorotatory) and right handed (Laevorotatory) versions of the same compound. Some molecules can have two different shapes that are mirror images of each other, and these different shapes can interact differently with our biology. In this case, the right handed version is available in stores with no prescription, while the left handed version is a very controlled substance.