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This is what happens when you let your job define your life. This person needs therapy, not more Leetcode practice. This reads like a person who is having a mi

This is what happens when you let your job define your life. This person needs therapy, not more Leetcode practice. This reads like a person who is having a mid-life crisis and hasn't found their role in life. Which is sad, because they seem to have a partner and a child, and as a dad myself, I know I'm vastly more concerned about being a good dad than I am about writing efficient code. In fact it's made focusing on work pretty hard, because I just don't find it that important anymore. It's hard to find the motivation to push yourself at work, because in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter jack shit. Also, you KNOW these interview processes are bullshit, so why would you let poor performance when doing them affect your self-image so much? Being good at software interviews and actually being good at your job are vastly different skillsets, but interestingly, being good at interviewing is a better paying skill to have. This has been known for over a decade. If you're struggling for money, take some time to learn how to game those useless interviews. You can master the process in a couple of months. If you're a veteran of the industry, reach out to old colleagues and see who's hiring. I didn't even interview for my current job, the CTO just vouched for me and I was hired. That's what happens when you take time to build a network. and I don't mean "networking", as in sleazing up people at conferences and spamming linkedIn invites. I mean keeping in touch with people you've worked with, who know you're a reliable person who gets stuff done, and isn't an asshole. And if money isn't an issue, focus on appreciating what really matters in life; your family. Algorithms and data structures can go fuck themselves, they're not important.

ergonaught 4y ago
They need therapy because hiring practices are broken?
- MaxMatti 4y ago
  They need therapy because they let the broken hiring practices get to them.
- cowpig 4y ago
  More like broken hiring processes are a fact of life and therapy can help people adapt to the crappier aspects of our existence
  - wizzwizz4 4y ago
    More like broken processes are something we should rail against, and therapy can help people process the crappier aspects of our existence that we haven't solved yet. (Nobody can work on every problem at once, after all.)
    - cowpig 4y ago
      At the same time, I have put a ton of thought and effort into my company's hiring process, and still I see people melt down from nervousness or just get into their own head during the pair-programming part interviews. We do everything we can think of to make the process as close to working together on the kind of code that candidates would work on at our company, but ultimately you can't get rid of the fact that someone is being actively assessed as they're working. When I see people are psyching themselves out sometimes I'll ask them if they want to take a little time to get their thoughts together, end the call and come back when they've got a groove going, or reschedule the call. Because people who are in their own heads trying to code while I'm watching them simply cannot put up a fair representation of their abilities. As an interviewer there's only so much I can do to help people with that. I try to take what I perceive as nerves or difficulty when I make a hiring decision, but I've also observed that people who are really struggling in this way in an interview are often going through something in their own lives that ends up interfering with their ability to be effective at work. So it's hard to balance. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that therapy can be beneficial regardless of the brokenness of the hiring process.
      - wizzwizz4 4y ago
        > At the same time, I have put a ton of thought and effort into my company's hiring process, Thanks, but I think there's only so much you can do. Part of the problem seems to be that there's such a thing as a "company hiring process" in the first place. (I don't know how to fix this; most problems seem to get solved by a thousand people making incremental improvements, so you're probably helping regardless.) > So I guess what I'm trying to say is that therapy can be beneficial regardless of the brokenness of the hiring process. This is definitely true. Though: therapy can be expensive, a good therapist is hard to find, and a therapist that works for you can be even harder; so it might not be worth seeking therapy for everyone.
- atommclain 4y ago
  Wether it's directly applicable or not, I'm reminded of the following quote: It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. -Jiddu Krishnamurti
- agumonkey 4y ago
  No, but because the author thinks she is the problem with intense suffering, even after describing a massive amount of knowledge, practical experience and teamwork abilities. The recruiting process is rotten, that's for sure but it's concerning she's judging herself so harshly. Maybe $parent was a bit harsh.. let's say she needs a lot more friendly support to get her mind out of this pit.
  - BubbleRings 4y ago
    We actually don't know if the author is male or female, it is a guest post on that blog. And actually, we don't even know if the blog itself is really written by Gail, since someone just posted that _they_ are the real Gail and it wasn't written by her.
    - agumonkey 4y ago
      Yeah, man or woman doesn't matter. There's a tangible anxiety at the end of the article.
    - gaylemcd 4y ago
      Correct. This substack is an impersonation.
- Rury 4y ago
  They need therapy, because they need to stop unnecessarily blaming themselves for things they have little control over (e.g broken hiring practices). They need to divide their ego from what externally happens to them, and instead build it upon what they stand for (something which can't be defined/destroyed by the external). They need to stop focusing solely at their failures and misfortunes, and acknowledge that other people often face the very same or similar problems, and even had successes were others have failed.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    Sure, but when do you realize you need to switch to a different career if you truly are bad?
    - Rury 4y ago
      The point is that, it is entirely up to you to decide.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
- furyofantares 4y ago
  It's a guest post
newbieuser 4y ago
real life doesn't work like you said. their suggestions are no different from people who put their work on the basis of their life.
INeedMoreRam 4y ago
[dead]
afavour 4y ago
> I know I'm vastly more concerned about being a good dad than I am about writing efficient code > Also, you KNOW these interview processes are bullshit Man does this speak to me. I know I’m a good software developer (even if I’m not amazing). I was never computer science trained but I’ve never had problems on the frontend, backend, mobile apps, etc… not saying I know everything but I know my domain inside out. I was approached by a Google recruiter and thought “what the hell” and started the process. Before I knew it I had five interviews queued up and the recruiter advised me to read a book on Google’s tech interviewing practises to make sure I pass. I don’t have time for that. I don’t want to have time for that, I have other priorities in life. The process seems very much optimised for new college grads with time to burn. I won’t work at Google, so be it. But much less secure single, no kids, 20-something me would be horrified by having to accept that.
- Thews 4y ago
  Good on you. I won't jump through hoops for one time things that don't matter, I see such requests as abuse.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- mkl95 4y ago
  > Before I knew it I had five interviews queued up and the recruiter advised me to read a book on Google’s tech interviewing practises to make sure I pass Your comment describes my experience with Google so far, in fact I'm sure my recruiter advised me to read the same book. I still don't know if I want to work for them and if I end up getting rejected I won't be too unhappy, since I'm doing fine at <current job>. The preparation part has felt slightly alienating.
lapcat 4y ago
[EDIT:] The substack is apparently an impersonation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34289824 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34289824 I recommend flagging the submission to take it down. [ORIGINAL UNEDITED REPLY:] > This is what happens when you let your job define your life. This is such a bizarre response when the author talks repeatedly about their family and supporting their family. > This person needs therapy, not more Leetcode practice. This person needs a job. "This is the last month that I can afford to pay the rent and bills without going back into debt" How much therapy do you think one can afford with no employment? > If you're struggling for money, take some time to learn how to game those useless interviews. How can you "take some time" when you're running out of money? The author already allotted a number of months to get a new job but seemingly underestimated how long it would take, which is of course a problem, but underestimating how long it takes to get a new job is not a "therapy" type problem, it's just a misestimate of the job market. Repeated failure can break almost anyone's confidence in themselves.
- Existenceblinks 4y ago
  Yeah, life without money is very dangerous. My model of life is there are 3 engines: money, physical health, mental health. If two go down the last one is doomed. If money engine goes down, it's REALLY hard to keep physical and mental health going. Imagine, going exercise every day while recovering or preventing mental health to go down .. and while trying to start the money engine. This shit is brutal!
  - intelVISA 4y ago
    I would say mental/physical health is intertwined. The big 3 is closer to fulfilment, health and needs imo... bit reductionist of Maslow's hierarchy but I think it's accurate enough.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    Individualism in the US also blames the victim for not pulling their bootstraps up hard enough. My hope is the social safety net can be rebuilt once this populism wave has passed
axpy906 4y ago
> It's hard to find the motivation to push yourself at work, because in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter jack shit. This is it. You’re trading your time for money, so the company can make more money. That’s it.
ss108 4y ago
> This person needs therapy, not more Leetcode practice. Well, sounds like they need a job, tbh...
Existenceblinks 4y ago
That's why our industry sucks (probably some others too). Instead of improving the game, we just like lets gives up, it's unfixable. Dang, it's not that bureaucratic govt .. a lot of tech people in C levels, and we are constantly bullshit-ing our workforce. 4-5 rounds interview for what sake!? Higher barrier, only backdoor network?
corytheboyd 4y ago
> This is what happens when you let your job define your life. This does seem to be at or near the root. This much pressure being put on the author is likely what is throwing them off. But. Assuming she lives in the US (seems safe based off of her work history)... your job kind of IS your life. No job means no health insurance. No health insurance means one mistake (yourself or dependents) and it could be over. Once it's over, unless you have a personal safety net to catch you, you're just... fucked. You're fucked. That's a lot of pressure, and it's so dumb that we couple something as crucial as healthcare to our jobs. Some corporate fat cats are laughing in their graves that they pulled this off. I'm sorry author. I hope things pan out for you and your family.
gaylemcd 4y ago
This substack is an impersonation. It is not mine (Gayle Laakmann McDowell). Reported. (I also commented on the substack but I was, of course, banned.) (And if you have any doubt about whether this is really me, please check my twitter: http://twitter.com/gayle http://twitter.com/gayle.)
- jbluepolarbear 4y ago
  I’m sorry someone is impersonating you. I will say that ”Cracking the Coding Interview” was very helpful for me early in my career. Thanks!
  - gaylemcd 4y ago
    Thank you! :)
_aleph2c_ 4y ago
Smart people who are out of work quickly become neurotic. The interview process is an exercise in humiliation. Placing a neurotic person into a series of humiliation rituals is a good way to make them more neurotic. A better way to get a job is to follow a lighthouse strategy; build something cool, present on it, then side step the humiliation ritual (have the employer agree that you are being evaluated this way). Or cheat, get access to the evaluation procedure before you are evaluated on it. Everyone has their favorite interview problem, and they like to brag about them (see comments below), find out what they are into, then train up on these problems before you engage with their humiliation ritual. As for therapy, instead I would recommend coaching (someone who works with salespeople), since they are good at rebuilding confidence after each humiliation. Remember, the interview doesn't actually evaluate you, don't believe its results, it's mostly a randomized process. I could come up with simple-seeming problems to stump most people, especially stressed out developers. The author of this post has lost her perspective, and her article is being posted by someone who makes money from the humiliation ritual. Knowing that you will become neurotic, look for work while you have work. If you are coming out of school, where everyone is single-tracked, know that the corporate world isn't fair. The corporate world is also disorganized, you could call someone within the software group and just ask them how to prepare for the interview, get creative.
intelVISA 4y ago
Despite being a fake I think it does present a good area for discussion; as you noted these bullshit hoops only exist to (try) keep mediocrity out -- most people aren't great at writing software so, ultimately, the realization that (fake) Gayle arrives at is probably quite common just, obviously, kept on the low. tl;dr there's enough abstraction now that as long as you can attend standups you'll pay the bills who cares if you're not T.A. Davis? Not like the company you're applying to is any better!
williamcotton 4y ago
Maybe it’s just me but OP feels a little bit satirical! Or maybe I’m projecting… I’m convinced that when I don’t do well in an interview that it wasn’t ever going to be a good fit. The fact that this happens more often than not is just a sign that most organizations are a dumpster fire.
heurist 4y ago
How are they going to pay for therapy with no income and no health insurance?

ergonaught 4y ago

They need therapy because hiring practices are broken?

MaxMatti 4y ago
They need therapy because they let the broken hiring practices get to them.
cowpig 4y ago
More like broken hiring processes are a fact of life and therapy can help people adapt to the crappier aspects of our existence
- wizzwizz4 4y ago
  More like broken processes are something we should rail against, and therapy can help people process the crappier aspects of our existence that we haven't solved yet. (Nobody can work on every problem at once, after all.)
  - cowpig 4y ago
    At the same time, I have put a ton of thought and effort into my company's hiring process, and still I see people melt down from nervousness or just get into their own head during the pair-programming part interviews. We do everything we can think of to make the process as close to working together on the kind of code that candidates would work on at our company, but ultimately you can't get rid of the fact that someone is being actively assessed as they're working. When I see people are psyching themselves out sometimes I'll ask them if they want to take a little time to get their thoughts together, end the call and come back when they've got a groove going, or reschedule the call. Because people who are in their own heads trying to code while I'm watching them simply cannot put up a fair representation of their abilities. As an interviewer there's only so much I can do to help people with that. I try to take what I perceive as nerves or difficulty when I make a hiring decision, but I've also observed that people who are really struggling in this way in an interview are often going through something in their own lives that ends up interfering with their ability to be effective at work. So it's hard to balance. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that therapy can be beneficial regardless of the brokenness of the hiring process.
    - wizzwizz4 4y ago
      > At the same time, I have put a ton of thought and effort into my company's hiring process, Thanks, but I think there's only so much you can do. Part of the problem seems to be that there's such a thing as a "company hiring process" in the first place. (I don't know how to fix this; most problems seem to get solved by a thousand people making incremental improvements, so you're probably helping regardless.) > So I guess what I'm trying to say is that therapy can be beneficial regardless of the brokenness of the hiring process. This is definitely true. Though: therapy can be expensive, a good therapist is hard to find, and a therapist that works for you can be even harder; so it might not be worth seeking therapy for everyone.
atommclain 4y ago
Wether it's directly applicable or not, I'm reminded of the following quote: It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. -Jiddu Krishnamurti
agumonkey 4y ago
No, but because the author thinks she is the problem with intense suffering, even after describing a massive amount of knowledge, practical experience and teamwork abilities. The recruiting process is rotten, that's for sure but it's concerning she's judging herself so harshly. Maybe $parent was a bit harsh.. let's say she needs a lot more friendly support to get her mind out of this pit.
- BubbleRings 4y ago
  We actually don't know if the author is male or female, it is a guest post on that blog. And actually, we don't even know if the blog itself is really written by Gail, since someone just posted that _they_ are the real Gail and it wasn't written by her.
  - agumonkey 4y ago
    Yeah, man or woman doesn't matter. There's a tangible anxiety at the end of the article.
  - gaylemcd 4y ago
    Correct. This substack is an impersonation.
Rury 4y ago
They need therapy, because they need to stop unnecessarily blaming themselves for things they have little control over (e.g broken hiring practices). They need to divide their ego from what externally happens to them, and instead build it upon what they stand for (something which can't be defined/destroyed by the external). They need to stop focusing solely at their failures and misfortunes, and acknowledge that other people often face the very same or similar problems, and even had successes were others have failed.
- giantg2 4y ago
  Sure, but when do you realize you need to switch to a different career if you truly are bad?
  - Rury 4y ago
    The point is that, it is entirely up to you to decide.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

furyofantares 4y ago
It's a guest post

newbieuser 4y ago

real life doesn't work like you said. their suggestions are no different from people who put their work on the basis of their life.

INeedMoreRam 4y ago

[dead]

afavour 4y ago

> I know I'm vastly more concerned about being a good dad than I am about writing efficient code > Also, you KNOW these interview processes are bullshit Man does this speak to me. I know I’m a good software developer (even if I’m not amazing). I was never computer science trained but I’ve never had problems on the frontend, backend, mobile apps, etc… not saying I know everything but I know my domain inside out. I was approached by a Google recruiter and thought “what the hell” and started the process. Before I knew it I had five interviews queued up and the recruiter advised me to read a book on Google’s tech interviewing practises to make sure I pass. I don’t have time for that. I don’t want to have time for that, I have other priorities in life. The process seems very much optimised for new college grads with time to burn. I won’t work at Google, so be it. But much less secure single, no kids, 20-something me would be horrified by having to accept that.

Thews 4y ago
Good on you. I won't jump through hoops for one time things that don't matter, I see such requests as abuse.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mkl95 4y ago
> Before I knew it I had five interviews queued up and the recruiter advised me to read a book on Google’s tech interviewing practises to make sure I pass Your comment describes my experience with Google so far, in fact I'm sure my recruiter advised me to read the same book. I still don't know if I want to work for them and if I end up getting rejected I won't be too unhappy, since I'm doing fine at <current job>. The preparation part has felt slightly alienating.

lapcat 4y ago

[EDIT:] The substack is apparently an impersonation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34289824 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34289824 I recommend flagging the submission to take it down. [ORIGINAL UNEDITED REPLY:] > This is what happens when you let your job define your life. This is such a bizarre response when the author talks repeatedly about their family and supporting their family. > This person needs therapy, not more Leetcode practice. This person needs a job. "This is the last month that I can afford to pay the rent and bills without going back into debt" How much therapy do you think one can afford with no employment? > If you're struggling for money, take some time to learn how to game those useless interviews. How can you "take some time" when you're running out of money? The author already allotted a number of months to get a new job but seemingly underestimated how long it would take, which is of course a problem, but underestimating how long it takes to get a new job is not a "therapy" type problem, it's just a misestimate of the job market. Repeated failure can break almost anyone's confidence in themselves.

Existenceblinks 4y ago
Yeah, life without money is very dangerous. My model of life is there are 3 engines: money, physical health, mental health. If two go down the last one is doomed. If money engine goes down, it's REALLY hard to keep physical and mental health going. Imagine, going exercise every day while recovering or preventing mental health to go down .. and while trying to start the money engine. This shit is brutal!
- intelVISA 4y ago
  I would say mental/physical health is intertwined. The big 3 is closer to fulfilment, health and needs imo... bit reductionist of Maslow's hierarchy but I think it's accurate enough.
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  Individualism in the US also blames the victim for not pulling their bootstraps up hard enough. My hope is the social safety net can be rebuilt once this populism wave has passed

axpy906 4y ago

> It's hard to find the motivation to push yourself at work, because in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter jack shit. This is it. You’re trading your time for money, so the company can make more money. That’s it.

ss108 4y ago

> This person needs therapy, not more Leetcode practice. Well, sounds like they need a job, tbh...

Existenceblinks 4y ago

That's why our industry sucks (probably some others too). Instead of improving the game, we just like lets gives up, it's unfixable. Dang, it's not that bureaucratic govt .. a lot of tech people in C levels, and we are constantly bullshit-ing our workforce. 4-5 rounds interview for what sake!? Higher barrier, only backdoor network?

corytheboyd 4y ago

> This is what happens when you let your job define your life. This does seem to be at or near the root. This much pressure being put on the author is likely what is throwing them off. But. Assuming she lives in the US (seems safe based off of her work history)... your job kind of IS your life. No job means no health insurance. No health insurance means one mistake (yourself or dependents) and it could be over. Once it's over, unless you have a personal safety net to catch you, you're just... fucked. You're fucked. That's a lot of pressure, and it's so dumb that we couple something as crucial as healthcare to our jobs. Some corporate fat cats are laughing in their graves that they pulled this off. I'm sorry author. I hope things pan out for you and your family.

gaylemcd 4y ago

This substack is an impersonation. It is not mine (Gayle Laakmann McDowell). Reported. (I also commented on the substack but I was, of course, banned.) (And if you have any doubt about whether this is really me, please check my twitter: http://twitter.com/gayle http://twitter.com/gayle.)

jbluepolarbear 4y ago
I’m sorry someone is impersonating you. I will say that ”Cracking the Coding Interview” was very helpful for me early in my career. Thanks!
- gaylemcd 4y ago
  Thank you! :)

_aleph2c_ 4y ago

Smart people who are out of work quickly become neurotic. The interview process is an exercise in humiliation. Placing a neurotic person into a series of humiliation rituals is a good way to make them more neurotic. A better way to get a job is to follow a lighthouse strategy; build something cool, present on it, then side step the humiliation ritual (have the employer agree that you are being evaluated this way). Or cheat, get access to the evaluation procedure before you are evaluated on it. Everyone has their favorite interview problem, and they like to brag about them (see comments below), find out what they are into, then train up on these problems before you engage with their humiliation ritual. As for therapy, instead I would recommend coaching (someone who works with salespeople), since they are good at rebuilding confidence after each humiliation. Remember, the interview doesn't actually evaluate you, don't believe its results, it's mostly a randomized process. I could come up with simple-seeming problems to stump most people, especially stressed out developers. The author of this post has lost her perspective, and her article is being posted by someone who makes money from the humiliation ritual. Knowing that you will become neurotic, look for work while you have work. If you are coming out of school, where everyone is single-tracked, know that the corporate world isn't fair. The corporate world is also disorganized, you could call someone within the software group and just ask them how to prepare for the interview, get creative.

intelVISA 4y ago

Despite being a fake I think it does present a good area for discussion; as you noted these bullshit hoops only exist to (try) keep mediocrity out -- most people aren't great at writing software so, ultimately, the realization that (fake) Gayle arrives at is probably quite common just, obviously, kept on the low. tl;dr there's enough abstraction now that as long as you can attend standups you'll pay the bills who cares if you're not T.A. Davis? Not like the company you're applying to is any better!

williamcotton 4y ago

Maybe it’s just me but OP feels a little bit satirical! Or maybe I’m projecting… I’m convinced that when I don’t do well in an interview that it wasn’t ever going to be a good fit. The fact that this happens more often than not is just a sign that most organizations are a dumpster fire.

heurist 4y ago

How are they going to pay for therapy with no income and no health insurance?