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I have yet to see someone implement that feature in a non-hackish way that fully works reliably and future proof on all supported robots while also not introduc

by hypfer 4y ago

I have yet to see someone implement that feature in a non-hackish way that fully works reliably and future proof on all supported robots while also not introducing crippling technical debt that will hurt the project in the long run. All I've seen so far is people greatly reducing the scope by focusing on their single robot with their specific subset of use-case and then saying "hey look it's so easy". Yes, it is indeed easy if you drop most of the requirements. Who would've thought. That said, yes, that's exactly what open source is for. Someone can take the code and add modifications that cater to their specific need. Isn't it great. Anyway, the main issue here is not technical but human: You don't solve trust issues with your proposals by just adding more pressure to whoever it is that you're trying to get to do something for you.

aliqot 4y ago
> I have yet to see someone implement that feature in a non-hackish way that fully works reliably and future proof on all supported robots while also not introducing crippling technical debt that will hurt the project in the long run. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. BDFL starts with the letter B.
- hypfer 4y ago
  Well at the end of the day, yours truly will be responsible to clean up that mess. Why would I do that? Why would I consciously move into a situation that will be harmful to me? Also, the project is in a great state with lots of options in regards to robots. If you have multiple floors, just buy a second robot used for 60€ Why add any risk whatsoever just to save 60€? It makes no sense. It's a downright terrible idea to do that.
  - aliqot 4y ago
    I'm saying this to provoke you, and possibly push you toward the light, so please don't take too much offense, but do help yourself to some: Do you have any preference for what the community will call the open fork of your project? I must add a sidenote because I didn't anticipate it reading as such a scathing rebuke as when it was conceived but, your behavior might be earned, you might be the Linus of motor-bins, but like the way you're acting here in front of your target audience is pretty much like every other BDFL who turned on their community. You are blessed that anybody shows any interest in submitting any code to your project, and I'm not saying that means you have to go merging every CoC that lands in your PR's, but I am saying that even though someone may be misguided, or may not share your vision, it doesn't mean they lack the potential to be swayed. obviously you know your stuff on motor-bins, and obviously you're passionate about that. Rather than ignoring and then shunning those who are incongruent in their vision, perhaps you could mentor them on the things you've learned over this time about what makes their idea suck. last but not least, when someone's giving you unsolicited advice that sounds like complete and utter shite, you respond with "thanks, I'll take that into consideration and keep it in mind". The dev equivalent of that is merge it to a branch, let them polish that turd until they succeed or fail, and then you can be validated in both cases and you've not alienated anybody. The way you act today, since I've been here about ohhh 2006ish maybe, is in line with every other BDFL who watched their project flourish as a fork instead. You might be cool with that, idk, we only just met, but if that is something you're cool with, you should be up front about that.
    - hypfer 4y ago
      Ah yes. The many very successful and super polished streamlined community-driven and well supported forks. That will surely happen. Especially when being born out of unreasonable rage about the lack of one specific minor feature with better solutions available for little additional cost. Surely in that fork, people will contribute more than just the bare minimum to scratch their itch. Hell, most users will likely be super motivated highly skilled developers that really want to move the world forward with their selfless contributions. No shitcode. No hidden agenda. No corporate takeover. Just higher ideals. Most definitely it will be the land of milk and honey. The only thing denying users this bliss is the evil maintainer. Jesus man. I encourage you to run a FOSS project for a while. Especially one in the consumer electronics space. I'm sure it will change your perspective on this.
      - aliqot 4y ago
        > Jesus man. I encourage you to run a FOSS project for a while. Especially one in the consumer electronics space. I'm sure it will change your perspective on this. What traits have led you to believe I don't?
        anonbanker 4y ago
        for me, it's the basic presumptions you're making in your posts, the vague fork threats when your ideas are challenged, and the way you hand-wave previous controversies such as weaponized-CoC's. All of which make me think you haven't run a FOSS project. And if you did, I bet it went swimmingly.
        aliqot 4y ago
        You'd be incorrect. On the order of years.
      - anonbanker 4y ago
        This is exactly the view most of the world has about PrismLauncher for Minecraft; A little UI reorganization and rainbows = land of milk and honey. Nevermind all the FUD being spread about the old project having "malware" in it. Meanwhile, PolyMC still chugs along with updates and features.
- fxtentacle 4y ago
  No, I fully agree with hypfer that merging any of those multi-map hacks would be a nightmare. Pretty much each robot vacuum is different and Valetudo does a great job of abstracting away the differences. Even on a 2nd robot of the exact same model, my fork would just break. Using those miio commands with pre-known map_ids really is a super fragile hack. Also, adding multi-floor support surely took way more working time than the financial equivalent of buying a 2nd robot. It also doesn't make sense financially. I mostly just added it because my kid likes carrying the robot around ^^ Plus with LEGO all over the floor in pretty much every room, we can't automate any cleaning anyway.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- lportx 4y ago
  The letter "B" is usually a euphemism. Like real world dictators, those who let themselves be called "benevolent" by their followers are the worst politicians.

by hypfer 4y ago

aliqot 4y ago

> I have yet to see someone implement that feature in a non-hackish way that fully works reliably and future proof on all supported robots while also not introducing crippling technical debt that will hurt the project in the long run. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. BDFL starts with the letter B.

hypfer 4y ago
Well at the end of the day, yours truly will be responsible to clean up that mess. Why would I do that? Why would I consciously move into a situation that will be harmful to me? Also, the project is in a great state with lots of options in regards to robots. If you have multiple floors, just buy a second robot used for 60€ Why add any risk whatsoever just to save 60€? It makes no sense. It's a downright terrible idea to do that.
- aliqot 4y ago
  I'm saying this to provoke you, and possibly push you toward the light, so please don't take too much offense, but do help yourself to some: Do you have any preference for what the community will call the open fork of your project? I must add a sidenote because I didn't anticipate it reading as such a scathing rebuke as when it was conceived but, your behavior might be earned, you might be the Linus of motor-bins, but like the way you're acting here in front of your target audience is pretty much like every other BDFL who turned on their community. You are blessed that anybody shows any interest in submitting any code to your project, and I'm not saying that means you have to go merging every CoC that lands in your PR's, but I am saying that even though someone may be misguided, or may not share your vision, it doesn't mean they lack the potential to be swayed. obviously you know your stuff on motor-bins, and obviously you're passionate about that. Rather than ignoring and then shunning those who are incongruent in their vision, perhaps you could mentor them on the things you've learned over this time about what makes their idea suck. last but not least, when someone's giving you unsolicited advice that sounds like complete and utter shite, you respond with "thanks, I'll take that into consideration and keep it in mind". The dev equivalent of that is merge it to a branch, let them polish that turd until they succeed or fail, and then you can be validated in both cases and you've not alienated anybody. The way you act today, since I've been here about ohhh 2006ish maybe, is in line with every other BDFL who watched their project flourish as a fork instead. You might be cool with that, idk, we only just met, but if that is something you're cool with, you should be up front about that.
  - hypfer 4y ago
    Ah yes. The many very successful and super polished streamlined community-driven and well supported forks. That will surely happen. Especially when being born out of unreasonable rage about the lack of one specific minor feature with better solutions available for little additional cost. Surely in that fork, people will contribute more than just the bare minimum to scratch their itch. Hell, most users will likely be super motivated highly skilled developers that really want to move the world forward with their selfless contributions. No shitcode. No hidden agenda. No corporate takeover. Just higher ideals. Most definitely it will be the land of milk and honey. The only thing denying users this bliss is the evil maintainer. Jesus man. I encourage you to run a FOSS project for a while. Especially one in the consumer electronics space. I'm sure it will change your perspective on this.
    - aliqot 4y ago
      > Jesus man. I encourage you to run a FOSS project for a while. Especially one in the consumer electronics space. I'm sure it will change your perspective on this. What traits have led you to believe I don't?
      - anonbanker 4y ago
        for me, it's the basic presumptions you're making in your posts, the vague fork threats when your ideas are challenged, and the way you hand-wave previous controversies such as weaponized-CoC's. All of which make me think you haven't run a FOSS project. And if you did, I bet it went swimmingly.
        aliqot 4y ago
        You'd be incorrect. On the order of years.
    - anonbanker 4y ago
      This is exactly the view most of the world has about PrismLauncher for Minecraft; A little UI reorganization and rainbows = land of milk and honey. Nevermind all the FUD being spread about the old project having "malware" in it. Meanwhile, PolyMC still chugs along with updates and features.
fxtentacle 4y ago
No, I fully agree with hypfer that merging any of those multi-map hacks would be a nightmare. Pretty much each robot vacuum is different and Valetudo does a great job of abstracting away the differences. Even on a 2nd robot of the exact same model, my fork would just break. Using those miio commands with pre-known map_ids really is a super fragile hack. Also, adding multi-floor support surely took way more working time than the financial equivalent of buying a 2nd robot. It also doesn't make sense financially. I mostly just added it because my kid likes carrying the robot around ^^ Plus with LEGO all over the floor in pretty much every room, we can't automate any cleaning anyway.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
lportx 4y ago
The letter "B" is usually a euphemism. Like real world dictators, those who let themselves be called "benevolent" by their followers are the worst politicians.