7 ms·

Man there are some real doozies in this repo's issues. - an extensive month long discussion that leaks implementation details of a private repo and ultimately

Man there are some real doozies in this repo's issues. - an extensive month long discussion that leaks implementation details of a private repo and ultimately leads to adding 1 readme comment that merely _suggests_ something https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/459 https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/459 - starting a 3 full-day hackathon every quarter. https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/441 https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/441 - adding politically motivated language and starting a policy to open issues in dependencies that do not conform. Look at the time and energy putting into changing master -> main and white/blacklist -> allow/deny. Also https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/427 https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/427

aba30 4y ago
Somewhat unsure of what you're implying by the tone, but reading through the issues linked above and these seem like... um, good things? I know I'd certainly value working at a company that debates things through RFCs, supports hackathons, and puts real effort into updating every repo to eliminate racist historical baggage from git branch names.
- tkiolp4 4y ago
  Hackathons are (if any) for people in their 20s with no family/kids. For me companies doing hackathons is a red flag.
  - statusgraph 4y ago
    Company hackathons are rarely 24hr affairs and more "don't do your normal work during working hours"
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - dblock 4y ago
    My daughter (second child) was born 4 days after I started at Artsy. Some of the best new ideas came from hackathons.
    - epolanski 4y ago
      Can't see the link between the two statements.
      - dblock 4y ago
        I worked at artsy in my 30s, and participated in many hackathons.
    - gyroglitch 4y ago
      [dead]
  - epolanski 4y ago
    Whether companies do hackatons, beer pong or whatever is irrelevant. What's relevant is whether being part of those is a discriminating factor for your career.
pprotas 4y ago
This is amazing, I wish my company had this culture of making big decisions through open RFCs.
- acjohnson55 4y ago
  I worked at Artsy, and the RFC process was, indeed, really great. It did a lot to empower anyone up propose changes.
quadrifoliate 4y ago
> an extensive month long discussion that leaks implementation details of a private repo and ultimately leads to adding 1 readme comment that merely _suggests_ something https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/459 https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/459 What implementation details? Most of the stuff linked in there seems to be in public repos that have interfaces to this private repo, so I can't see that the discussion itself is leaking more implementation details than reading the code in the public repos that interacts with the private repo. Secondly, the conversation in there is long, but hardly unusually so. At most each comment apart from the initial one took up ~10 minutes of time for each of the authors. Are we at the point where 8 well-formatted comments on a GitHub issue are going to make us go "ooh, long discussion, must be something wrong with it"? I would rather have long, well-formatted comments than "lol ok" style garbage. Finally, I wish more people would conclude a month-long discussion with a simple action rather than carrying out an unnecessary and complicated one because "Well, something has to be done, and it has to be large because we have discussed a lot". This can be counterproductive with dealing with complex libraries that you don't understand yet. > adding politically motivated language and starting a policy to open issues in dependencies that do not conform. Look at the time and energy putting into changing master -> main and white/blacklist -> allow/deny. Also https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/427 https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/427 I would prefer to stop talking about this stuff, but it's hard when I often see lazy drive-by denouncements like "Politically motivated" in comments near the top. Language seems to be important to the people working on the project. It would probably not be the first thing I pick up, but I don't understand why it's considered a "doozy". Good documentation does think about the people using it as well as clarity; and "denylist" is more informational than "blacklist" in addition to being more sensitive. Real language idioms change just like programming language idioms, and railing against them is about as useful as claiming you hate Python 3 because they took out the print statement.
- epolanski 4y ago
  > Are we at the point where 8 well-formatted comments on a GitHub issue are going to make us go "ooh, long discussion, must be something wrong with it"? Yeah, how about replacing it with 2/3 10 people meetings across 3 weeks lasting 60 minutes each? You get 1800 minutes of work lost versus only 100 of yours and you also have the advantage of losing all of the information/context if the meeting contents aren't reported and documented.
ugh123 4y ago
Sounds like great engineering culture
dblock 4y ago
Joey who opened https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/427 https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/427 is one of the best 10x engineers I’ve ever had the privilege to work with. If it’s important to him to rename all branches from “master” to “joey” I’d add my plus 1. Jokes aside, please read Ash’s (another artsy alumni) post on psychological safety, hope it changes your mind: https://ashfurrow.com/blog/building-compassionate-software/ https://ashfurrow.com/blog/building-compassionate-software/
- drstewart 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - dblock 4y ago
    Yikes. I was being sarcastic to make my point. And if highlight the “jokes aside” in the second paragraph, you’ll tell me I wasn’t funny?

aba30 4y ago

Somewhat unsure of what you're implying by the tone, but reading through the issues linked above and these seem like... um, good things? I know I'd certainly value working at a company that debates things through RFCs, supports hackathons, and puts real effort into updating every repo to eliminate racist historical baggage from git branch names.

tkiolp4 4y ago
Hackathons are (if any) for people in their 20s with no family/kids. For me companies doing hackathons is a red flag.
- statusgraph 4y ago
  Company hackathons are rarely 24hr affairs and more "don't do your normal work during working hours"
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- dblock 4y ago
  My daughter (second child) was born 4 days after I started at Artsy. Some of the best new ideas came from hackathons.
  - epolanski 4y ago
    Can't see the link between the two statements.
    - dblock 4y ago
      I worked at artsy in my 30s, and participated in many hackathons.
  - gyroglitch 4y ago
    [dead]
- epolanski 4y ago
  Whether companies do hackatons, beer pong or whatever is irrelevant. What's relevant is whether being part of those is a discriminating factor for your career.

pprotas 4y ago

This is amazing, I wish my company had this culture of making big decisions through open RFCs.

acjohnson55 4y ago
I worked at Artsy, and the RFC process was, indeed, really great. It did a lot to empower anyone up propose changes.

quadrifoliate 4y ago

> an extensive month long discussion that leaks implementation details of a private repo and ultimately leads to adding 1 readme comment that merely _suggests_ something https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/459 https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/459 What implementation details? Most of the stuff linked in there seems to be in public repos that have interfaces to this private repo, so I can't see that the discussion itself is leaking more implementation details than reading the code in the public repos that interacts with the private repo. Secondly, the conversation in there is long, but hardly unusually so. At most each comment apart from the initial one took up ~10 minutes of time for each of the authors. Are we at the point where 8 well-formatted comments on a GitHub issue are going to make us go "ooh, long discussion, must be something wrong with it"? I would rather have long, well-formatted comments than "lol ok" style garbage. Finally, I wish more people would conclude a month-long discussion with a simple action rather than carrying out an unnecessary and complicated one because "Well, something has to be done, and it has to be large because we have discussed a lot". This can be counterproductive with dealing with complex libraries that you don't understand yet. > adding politically motivated language and starting a policy to open issues in dependencies that do not conform. Look at the time and energy putting into changing master -> main and white/blacklist -> allow/deny. Also https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/427 https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/427 I would prefer to stop talking about this stuff, but it's hard when I often see lazy drive-by denouncements like "Politically motivated" in comments near the top. Language seems to be important to the people working on the project. It would probably not be the first thing I pick up, but I don't understand why it's considered a "doozy". Good documentation does think about the people using it as well as clarity; and "denylist" is more informational than "blacklist" in addition to being more sensitive. Real language idioms change just like programming language idioms, and railing against them is about as useful as claiming you hate Python 3 because they took out the print statement.

epolanski 4y ago
> Are we at the point where 8 well-formatted comments on a GitHub issue are going to make us go "ooh, long discussion, must be something wrong with it"? Yeah, how about replacing it with 2/3 10 people meetings across 3 weeks lasting 60 minutes each? You get 1800 minutes of work lost versus only 100 of yours and you also have the advantage of losing all of the information/context if the meeting contents aren't reported and documented.

ugh123 4y ago

Sounds like great engineering culture

dblock 4y ago

Joey who opened https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/427 https://github.com/artsy/README/issues/427 is one of the best 10x engineers I’ve ever had the privilege to work with. If it’s important to him to rename all branches from “master” to “joey” I’d add my plus 1. Jokes aside, please read Ash’s (another artsy alumni) post on psychological safety, hope it changes your mind: https://ashfurrow.com/blog/building-compassionate-software/ https://ashfurrow.com/blog/building-compassionate-software/

drstewart 4y ago
[flagged]
- dblock 4y ago
  Yikes. I was being sarcastic to make my point. And if highlight the “jokes aside” in the second paragraph, you’ll tell me I wasn’t funny?