3 ms·

Htpocrisy doesn't invalidate peoples' messages, more to the point..

by Khelavaster 4y ago

thriftwy 4y ago
It does if they do the very immoral thing they praise against in that message.
- thebearyouden 4y ago
  It really doesn’t - if someone is addicted to, say, heroin and publicly state it is bad, they wish it wasn’t widely available, that there was more done to stop it, that if you do it you’re going to become a “bad person” doing bad things to finance this. Well someone might come along and ask isn’t that judgement hypocritical, aren’t you a junkie? Well, no - it’s usually a heartfelt plea from a place of painfully hard-won experience trying to help someone else lest they too fall victim. No different that the teenage “why can’t I smoke, both of you {mom,dad} smoke!” setup that is so common it’s a sit-com trope.
  - Sakos 4y ago
    There are different kinds or degrees of hypocrisy, no? Your examples are great examples for showing why hypocrisy isn't automatically bad. Politics on the other hand is filled with hypocrisy that is far less acceptable, like pretending to care about women while taking away their rights, or pretending to care about the children while opposing any form of gun control or accountability for police.
  - nhchris 4y ago
    > Well someone might come along and ask isn’t that judgement hypocritical, aren’t you a junkie? It's not hypocritical - the junkie considers also his own addiction and habits as bad. It only becomes hypocrisy if he makes an exception for himself, using thin excuses. To take the example to its limit: "You shouldn't double-park" "But you double-parked!" "Yes, and I shouldn't have, I'm a worse person for doing so, don't follow my example" - that's not hypocrisy. But "Yes but I was in a hurry and parking properly would have been really awkward" - now it is hypocrisy. Especially if they don't allow those excuses when others use them.
    - hgsgm 4y ago
      Huh? It's hypocrisy unless they pay the same fine for double parking that they want you to pay. Otherwise it's just "pulling up the ladder" after they've climbed it. (Which is a standard tactic for people who "regret" having an abortion but don't put themselves in jail or even adopt a child).
stephencanon 4y ago
Hypocrisy is what you complain about when you cannot make a substantive complaint, but want to complain anyway.
- europeanguy 4y ago
  No, it's not. Saying "you want your rules to apply to others but not to you" is a perfectly substantive thing to point out.
  - stephencanon 4y ago
    It’s always a weaker argument than pointing out actual problems with the rules themselves is.
    - europeanguy 4y ago
      In principle, that is true. In practice, there's nothing to be gained with pointing out the problems with the rules if the other party won't abide by them.

Htpocrisy doesn't invalidate peoples' messages, more to the point..

thriftwy 4y ago

It does if they do the very immoral thing they praise against in that message.

thebearyouden 4y ago
It really doesn’t - if someone is addicted to, say, heroin and publicly state it is bad, they wish it wasn’t widely available, that there was more done to stop it, that if you do it you’re going to become a “bad person” doing bad things to finance this. Well someone might come along and ask isn’t that judgement hypocritical, aren’t you a junkie? Well, no - it’s usually a heartfelt plea from a place of painfully hard-won experience trying to help someone else lest they too fall victim. No different that the teenage “why can’t I smoke, both of you {mom,dad} smoke!” setup that is so common it’s a sit-com trope.
- Sakos 4y ago
  There are different kinds or degrees of hypocrisy, no? Your examples are great examples for showing why hypocrisy isn't automatically bad. Politics on the other hand is filled with hypocrisy that is far less acceptable, like pretending to care about women while taking away their rights, or pretending to care about the children while opposing any form of gun control or accountability for police.
- nhchris 4y ago
  > Well someone might come along and ask isn’t that judgement hypocritical, aren’t you a junkie? It's not hypocritical - the junkie considers also his own addiction and habits as bad. It only becomes hypocrisy if he makes an exception for himself, using thin excuses. To take the example to its limit: "You shouldn't double-park" "But you double-parked!" "Yes, and I shouldn't have, I'm a worse person for doing so, don't follow my example" - that's not hypocrisy. But "Yes but I was in a hurry and parking properly would have been really awkward" - now it is hypocrisy. Especially if they don't allow those excuses when others use them.
  - hgsgm 4y ago
    Huh? It's hypocrisy unless they pay the same fine for double parking that they want you to pay. Otherwise it's just "pulling up the ladder" after they've climbed it. (Which is a standard tactic for people who "regret" having an abortion but don't put themselves in jail or even adopt a child).

stephencanon 4y ago

Hypocrisy is what you complain about when you cannot make a substantive complaint, but want to complain anyway.

europeanguy 4y ago
No, it's not. Saying "you want your rules to apply to others but not to you" is a perfectly substantive thing to point out.
- stephencanon 4y ago
  It’s always a weaker argument than pointing out actual problems with the rules themselves is.
  - europeanguy 4y ago
    In principle, that is true. In practice, there's nothing to be gained with pointing out the problems with the rules if the other party won't abide by them.