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Yeah, well. Here's a concept: Every single researcher who wants to conduct these kinds of experiments needs to, as a prerequisite, read Starting Strength [0]

Yeah, well. Here's a concept: Every single researcher who wants to conduct these kinds of experiments needs to, as a prerequisite, read Starting Strength [0] and then go to a certified gym for a year or more before even remotely being able to say anything useful about the subject. Yes, sure, Starting Strength isn't perfect. I am not presenting it as the sum of all knowledge and the one-and-only true anything. However, there is a vast difference between someone who think they understand strength training and someone who reads this book and actually does it (under trained supervision) for as little as a year. Someone mentioned dumbbell exercises being harmful and unnecessary. Absolutely agreed. The isolation exercises and machines are dangerous gimmicks for almost everyone going to the gym. There are people for whom they might have value. For the average person who wants to get fit and strong, these exercises and machines are a horrible idea. My own story: I thought I knew how to lift. I was frustrated because I was not able to make progress. Someone at work introduced me to Starting Strength. I read the book and found a local certified trainer. The difference was like night and day. I remember the first time I went back to a regular gym after about a year on Starting Strength. I had not touched a dumbbell in probably two years, if not more. Not once. I decided to see what I could do. Long story short, I got all the way up to the 120 lb dumbbells and could not go further 'cause that's the heaviest they had. Anyone looking at me would not, in a million years, have guessed I could go pick-up two 120 lb dumbbells and workout using them. I had guys coming to ask "WTF?", because they were struggling with weights less than half that much. This goes with my favorite quote: "A man holding a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way" - Mark Twain. These researchers need a cat to hold before they think they know what they are talking about. [0] https://startingstrength.com/ https://startingstrength.com/ PS.: Rip is an interesting character. Trained with him. Even had discussions about the use of his approach in space travel applications. Nice guy.

hhmc 4y ago
You're just presupposing the researchers don't know anything about strength training, any basis for that other than some lazy guess?
- robomartin 4y ago
  > any basis for that other than some lazy guess? Reading papers on the subject and working with researchers in the context of discussing different training methodologies for space-going missions? The knowledge gap between someone who is mostly an academic and someone who has the formal training matched with real-world experience is vast. When you attempt a 250 lb squat and your body shuts down and just collapses under the weight you learn things you cannot learn any other way. That's an extreme case, of course. Yet, I've been in a room when researcher proposed ideas that seemed sensible to them and everyone in the room who actually had time actually lifting and training just rolled their eyes. This is true of any field. Experience is incredibly valuable. The only people who do not value experience are those who do not have it and somehow believe they have superpowers that allow them to reinvent things that have been learned the hard way by so many.
  - hhmc 4y ago
    > When you attempt a 250 lb squat and your body shuts down and just collapses under the weight you learn things you cannot learn any other way. This is one of those glib statements that sounds reasonable, but is clearly meaningless on any real thought. It’s like saying you can’t understand high energy physics without personally being collided with a particle at 3 TeV.
eggsmediumrare 4y ago
Starting Strength is fine, but would be even better if it was a shorthand in your comment for "training intelligently," as this would then include any progressive program involving compound resistance training and conditioning. Not sure wtf I'd do with 120s. Too heavy to put overhead for much more than a rep or two unless you're an absolute animal. Too light for anything else, other than maybe bench I guess?
- robomartin 4y ago
  > Starting Strength is fine, but would be even better if it was a shorthand in your comment for "training intelligently," I did say this: "Starting Strength isn't perfect. I am not presenting it as the sum of all knowledge and the one-and-only true anything." I would add that for the vast majority (95%) of the people going to a gym, Starting Strength would be an amazing improvement. My take is Rip isn't great at marketing or he could have had his program become a standard in most consumer gyms. I don't go to gyms any more, I put in a full Rogue squat rack setup at my place. Most of the people I used to see at gyms messing around with weights and machines are wasting their time and, in some cases, getting hurt. You see the same people week after week lifting the same weights (badly) and going nowhere.
sawmurai 4y ago
Yeah, the day you start your linear progression with Starting Strength is the day you stop subscribing to fitness social media and just get strong :) I fondly remember the times

hhmc 4y ago

You're just presupposing the researchers don't know anything about strength training, any basis for that other than some lazy guess?

robomartin 4y ago
> any basis for that other than some lazy guess? Reading papers on the subject and working with researchers in the context of discussing different training methodologies for space-going missions? The knowledge gap between someone who is mostly an academic and someone who has the formal training matched with real-world experience is vast. When you attempt a 250 lb squat and your body shuts down and just collapses under the weight you learn things you cannot learn any other way. That's an extreme case, of course. Yet, I've been in a room when researcher proposed ideas that seemed sensible to them and everyone in the room who actually had time actually lifting and training just rolled their eyes. This is true of any field. Experience is incredibly valuable. The only people who do not value experience are those who do not have it and somehow believe they have superpowers that allow them to reinvent things that have been learned the hard way by so many.
- hhmc 4y ago
  > When you attempt a 250 lb squat and your body shuts down and just collapses under the weight you learn things you cannot learn any other way. This is one of those glib statements that sounds reasonable, but is clearly meaningless on any real thought. It’s like saying you can’t understand high energy physics without personally being collided with a particle at 3 TeV.

eggsmediumrare 4y ago

Starting Strength is fine, but would be even better if it was a shorthand in your comment for "training intelligently," as this would then include any progressive program involving compound resistance training and conditioning. Not sure wtf I'd do with 120s. Too heavy to put overhead for much more than a rep or two unless you're an absolute animal. Too light for anything else, other than maybe bench I guess?

robomartin 4y ago
> Starting Strength is fine, but would be even better if it was a shorthand in your comment for "training intelligently," I did say this: "Starting Strength isn't perfect. I am not presenting it as the sum of all knowledge and the one-and-only true anything." I would add that for the vast majority (95%) of the people going to a gym, Starting Strength would be an amazing improvement. My take is Rip isn't great at marketing or he could have had his program become a standard in most consumer gyms. I don't go to gyms any more, I put in a full Rogue squat rack setup at my place. Most of the people I used to see at gyms messing around with weights and machines are wasting their time and, in some cases, getting hurt. You see the same people week after week lifting the same weights (badly) and going nowhere.

sawmurai 4y ago

Yeah, the day you start your linear progression with Starting Strength is the day you stop subscribing to fitness social media and just get strong :) I fondly remember the times