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The IRS did deliberately target conservatives though. That's not something you forget when you hear the stories and then the scandal hits the news. Plus, even i

The IRS did deliberately target conservatives though. That's not something you forget when you hear the stories and then the scandal hits the news. Plus, even if the IRS isn't targeting you for your politics, dealing with them can easily become a Kafkaesque nightmare even over trivial amounts of money. My father in law experienced that a few years back. People hate the IRS because they are a huge bureaucracy and because they did deliberately target people like them.

Octabrain 4y ago
> The IRS did deliberately target conservatives though. A goverment agency in charge of something crucial like taxes targeting citizens based on their political preferences? man, I am not from the US but that sounds utterly apalling for a democracy.
- favorited 4y ago
  That's OK, because "targeting citizens based on their political preferences" didn't happen.
  - Octabrain 4y ago
    Just to be clear, was this some kind of conspirancy theory then?
    - hgsgm 4y ago
      The IRS is required to ensure that political lobbying groups pay taxes, but allow charities to not pay taxes. This job is impossible to do without raising controversy, because many political lobbying groups lie about their behavior.
    - mrguyorama 4y ago
      No. There are tax rules around political groups providing money for campaigns. The IRS is therefore obligated to look into political groups and make sure they are on the up and up on taxes. Under the Obama administration, the IRS used political keywords like "Occupy" and "Tea party" to make decisions about which groups to focus on, with limited resources. The IRS investigated both conservative and liberal political groups, with multiple investigations showing no evidence that the IRS sought to investigate more conservative groups than liberal, or of using the rules differently against conservative groups. It's just another instance of conservatives arguing that fair treatment is oppression because they get caught by rules more. It's the same as how facebook and twitter had to kneecap their "Fake News" filters because it kept labeling conservative posts as fake news. Conservatives bitched about this claiming they are being targeted but nope, just falling afoul of the same rules. Important to note that rules hitting one group more than others doesn't immediately signal the group is just bad actors. Consider poll screening tests from the jim crowe era. They consistently affected black people in worse ways, because it wasn't an honest and fair system, because it was designed to do so. I have not been convinced that facebook and twitter were applying their rules unequally. If you interview Fake News barons, they tell you that they just make more money and have more success targeting conservatives, often claiming that liberals are more likely to point out their articles are low trust or "Fake news" or should be taken with a grain of salt.
favorited 4y ago
> because they did deliberately target people like them No, they didn't. The IRS has no idea if a person is lefist, conservative, or anything in the middle. There were multiple investigations into the IRS targeting political groups (not people!) applying for tax exempt status using keywords like "tea party." Those investigations found that groups across the political spectrum were targeted, not just conservative ones.
- barelysapient 4y ago
  I’m guessing the op is referring to this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy “In 2013, the United States Internal Revenue Service (IRS), under the Obama administration, revealed that it had selected political groups applying for tax-exempt status for intensive scrutiny based on their names or political themes.” Further in the article you’ll learn that conservative groups were targeted more than left leaning groups.
  - hgsgm 4y ago
    So they targeted both, as required by law (political lobbying is not tax exempt), and conservative groups were targeted "more", without quantitative context.
tonfreed 4y ago
It's been weaponised since Nixon. Pretty much every regime since then has targeted groups that present a thorn in their sides

Octabrain 4y ago

> The IRS did deliberately target conservatives though. A goverment agency in charge of something crucial like taxes targeting citizens based on their political preferences? man, I am not from the US but that sounds utterly apalling for a democracy.

favorited 4y ago
That's OK, because "targeting citizens based on their political preferences" didn't happen.
- Octabrain 4y ago
  Just to be clear, was this some kind of conspirancy theory then?
  - hgsgm 4y ago
    The IRS is required to ensure that political lobbying groups pay taxes, but allow charities to not pay taxes. This job is impossible to do without raising controversy, because many political lobbying groups lie about their behavior.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    No. There are tax rules around political groups providing money for campaigns. The IRS is therefore obligated to look into political groups and make sure they are on the up and up on taxes. Under the Obama administration, the IRS used political keywords like "Occupy" and "Tea party" to make decisions about which groups to focus on, with limited resources. The IRS investigated both conservative and liberal political groups, with multiple investigations showing no evidence that the IRS sought to investigate more conservative groups than liberal, or of using the rules differently against conservative groups. It's just another instance of conservatives arguing that fair treatment is oppression because they get caught by rules more. It's the same as how facebook and twitter had to kneecap their "Fake News" filters because it kept labeling conservative posts as fake news. Conservatives bitched about this claiming they are being targeted but nope, just falling afoul of the same rules. Important to note that rules hitting one group more than others doesn't immediately signal the group is just bad actors. Consider poll screening tests from the jim crowe era. They consistently affected black people in worse ways, because it wasn't an honest and fair system, because it was designed to do so. I have not been convinced that facebook and twitter were applying their rules unequally. If you interview Fake News barons, they tell you that they just make more money and have more success targeting conservatives, often claiming that liberals are more likely to point out their articles are low trust or "Fake news" or should be taken with a grain of salt.

favorited 4y ago

> because they did deliberately target people like them No, they didn't. The IRS has no idea if a person is lefist, conservative, or anything in the middle. There were multiple investigations into the IRS targeting political groups (not people!) applying for tax exempt status using keywords like "tea party." Those investigations found that groups across the political spectrum were targeted, not just conservative ones.

barelysapient 4y ago
I’m guessing the op is referring to this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy “In 2013, the United States Internal Revenue Service (IRS), under the Obama administration, revealed that it had selected political groups applying for tax-exempt status for intensive scrutiny based on their names or political themes.” Further in the article you’ll learn that conservative groups were targeted more than left leaning groups.
- hgsgm 4y ago
  So they targeted both, as required by law (political lobbying is not tax exempt), and conservative groups were targeted "more", without quantitative context.

tonfreed 4y ago

It's been weaponised since Nixon. Pretty much every regime since then has targeted groups that present a thorn in their sides