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I’ve lived on the streets and worked with homeless charities for years and years. I am extremely skeptical this is case and for those whom it is true, I expect

I’ve lived on the streets and worked with homeless charities for years and years. I am extremely skeptical this is case and for those whom it is true, I expect them to fall into the class of “transient homeless” who experience it for a short period.

droopyEyelids 4y ago
Transient homeless (those who have fallen upon hard times, and may still have a job, but no longer have a place for their family to live) make up around 80% of the homeless population. Solving that would be a huge win for society.
- andrewla 4y ago
  Sure, but not really the policy outcome that people are thinking of when they talk about solving the "homeless problem". The guy passed on in the subway car next to his own feces is not going to be helped in any way by these policies. There are no good solutions here that respect the rights of the individual and also our collective right to live in a civil society. Involuntarily detention through the criminal justice system (horrifying) or the mental health system (completely dehumanizing) are the best tools we have, other than having compassionate people who will devote time and effort and individual attention to the victims of mental health or pathological substance abuse problems.
  - cjwilliams 4y ago
    No reason why mental institutions cant be compassionate and devote time and effort to individuals. Much better than letting these people live in their own excrement in the subway.
    - andrewla 4y ago
      Well, maybe "no reason" is a bit strong. Organizations cannot be engineered to be compassionate; compassionate individuals can make an organization more compassionate, but the bottleneck will always be finding people who are compassionate, have subject matter expertise, and are willing to work for the wages offered. And even with compassion there are still problematic situations. Involuntary confinement of any sort requires a careful application of principles -- when is it okay to confine someone; when and how do you decide when they can or must be released; who can make the judgment calls and what checks are in place to prevent abuse. These are questions that seem to have no good answers.
- atdrummond 4y ago
  It’s the non-transient population that cause the vast majority of externalities associated with homelessness. We’re not talking about Jeff who is homeless because he’s crashing on Aunt Karen’s couch for a month. Put another way: It is undesirable to be impermanently homeless. The permanently homeless make it undesirable for you.

droopyEyelids 4y ago

Transient homeless (those who have fallen upon hard times, and may still have a job, but no longer have a place for their family to live) make up around 80% of the homeless population. Solving that would be a huge win for society.

andrewla 4y ago
Sure, but not really the policy outcome that people are thinking of when they talk about solving the "homeless problem". The guy passed on in the subway car next to his own feces is not going to be helped in any way by these policies. There are no good solutions here that respect the rights of the individual and also our collective right to live in a civil society. Involuntarily detention through the criminal justice system (horrifying) or the mental health system (completely dehumanizing) are the best tools we have, other than having compassionate people who will devote time and effort and individual attention to the victims of mental health or pathological substance abuse problems.
- cjwilliams 4y ago
  No reason why mental institutions cant be compassionate and devote time and effort to individuals. Much better than letting these people live in their own excrement in the subway.
  - andrewla 4y ago
    Well, maybe "no reason" is a bit strong. Organizations cannot be engineered to be compassionate; compassionate individuals can make an organization more compassionate, but the bottleneck will always be finding people who are compassionate, have subject matter expertise, and are willing to work for the wages offered. And even with compassion there are still problematic situations. Involuntary confinement of any sort requires a careful application of principles -- when is it okay to confine someone; when and how do you decide when they can or must be released; who can make the judgment calls and what checks are in place to prevent abuse. These are questions that seem to have no good answers.
atdrummond 4y ago
It’s the non-transient population that cause the vast majority of externalities associated with homelessness. We’re not talking about Jeff who is homeless because he’s crashing on Aunt Karen’s couch for a month. Put another way: It is undesirable to be impermanently homeless. The permanently homeless make it undesirable for you.